Coach leaves bench to sit in the stands.
 

An assistant for Team A sits on the bench during the first half. After halftime he comes out and sits in the front row of the stands on the opposite end of the floor from his bench and across the floor. He shouts instructions from his seat. At one point he goes to the team huddle during a timeout and then returns to his seat in the bleachers.

Legal? Unsporting? Penalized?

Don't have rulebook with me, but I'm guessing T for leaving the coaching box? Or, maybe go to game management about a "fan" entering the court going to a team's huddle? :D

Blue: If a coach has changed his official status with the team, then it should be reported to the officials at the nearest opportunity. However, there is no penalty for not doing so.

Purple: the officials should not allow this. If the "coach" fails to comply, it is a technical foul.

I totally agree. This is being discussed on another board and one poster insists that it is nothing. I can't buy that. At the very least, when he comes back, especially after "coaching" from the stands, it should be called as an unsporting foul.

If he decides to be a fan, he's out of my jurisdiction as far as shouting instructions to his players. In JV games, you hear the varsity coaches do it all the time. Once he joins the huddle, though, I'll warn the HC if I'm feeling generous.

You have two options.
1. Have the fan removed for entering the court.
2. Charge a T to the assistant coach for leaving the bench (the box is irrelevant for an assistant coach); don't forget to give the HC his indirect.

oh yeah, good call with #2!

I don't really see anything illegal here. This seems like the flipside to the countless references which have been made about the ac being a nonperson.

Those references are all tongue-in-cheek. An AC is bench peronnel, and must adhere to those rules. If he wants to give up being a coach for the game, I'm fine with it. He's not, however, going to join the huddles for timeouts or intermissions. He's either in or he's out, he doesn't get it both ways.

And if I get the impression that he's made that move in order to have free reign to criticize the refs; he'll be disappointed.

100% agree.

Interesting question indeed. ;)

Peace

And many have said that there is no rules coverage and that a T would not be appropriate. That is a fan site, this is an official's site. You should realize there is a difference in the comments. ;)

Oh well.

Peace

Let the HC make the decision for you. Go to HC, and ask who that person was who just joined his team huddle, if he says it is one of my assistance, T his AC up and sit the HC, if he says he fan, walk over to the administrator and have the fan removed from the gym.

And four (that's a majority) of the officials responding here feel that a technical foul COULD be issued.

Let me pull rank a little, you should understand this one.
 

Brian,

Let me pull a little rank one you. I am not going to publish the email that was sent between another official and our head guy on this. But you are not a clinician with the State of Illinois. You are just an official. I am a clinician with the state of Illinois in basketball and one thing I have learned is to contact guys like Harry B (head clinician and head rules interpreter for the State of Illinois, who I also know very well and work for in both high school and college) or the IHSA office if I am not clear. The KG clarified what I basically said on this. KG made it clear that this could be handled by game management and suggests that this was the likely scenario as I had said originally and all along in our discussion over there.

There are not many people here that live in our state, but if this happens in their area I would suggest they do the same thing and contact the powers that be. And you have people that do not agree with you as to make the AC stay at the bench. They are handling the very same way I suggested as did the administrator of boys basketball. This is why I said to file a Special Report in the first place. Because it seems that the only people that took action to contact the IHSA was an official that did so based on a discussion board conversation. The officials on the game did not do so and certainly not the teams involved in the game in question. I also did not hear that the officials gave a T or even had the guy removed. So they did not even notice the behavior or decided to do nothing at all. You do not have to agree with me, but I stand by what I said and really do not see the big deal. When you work a game you are responsible for you actions or behavior and judgments. I have earned the right to take many positions and take action appropriately with the higher ups. I have never seen this nor do I feel this is a tragedy as you have made this out to be. Maybe you have not been in that position, but I have as an administrator. And I get asked all the time personally about situations and I contact those that know more than me what we should do so there is consistency.

had a similar situation one night in a JV game. Top row of the bleachers, opposite the table, during the first half sat a dad. The typical, loud, making a horses a** of himself dad. Nothing profane, just extra loud, extra dumb, extra annoying stuff.

Came out after half-time -- dad is now standing behind the team bench, and begins yelling at me. I calmly walk over to where he and the HC can hear me and say, "who are you?" He tries to power up and say, "uh, I'm an assistant coach." I look at the head coach to make sure he's paying attention, look back at the dad and say, "if you're now and AC, I'm now going to assess 2 technical fouls on you, penalize this team and have you removed from the gym."

At that point, the young HC looks at the dad and tells him in no uncertain terms to get his rear back to the others side of the gym and away from the bench. Didn't hear jack from him the rest of the night.

Does standing behind the bench make someone 'bench personnel'? I would think eventually some fan would tell him to sit his big butt down so they can see the game.

just to hi-light the FIBA rule...

Rule Three - Teams (OFFICIAL BASKETBALL RULES 2008)

Art 4. Teams

4.2 Rule
4.2.1 Each team shall consist of:
• No more than twelve (12) team members entitled to play, including a captain.
• A coach and, if a team wishes, an assistant coach.
• A maximum of five (5) team followers who may sit on the team bench and have
special responsibilities, e.g. manager, doctor, physiotherapist, statistician,
interpreter, etc.

Art. 7 Coaches: Duties and powers

7.3 The coaches and assistant coaches (as well as the substitutes, excluded players and team followers) are the only persons permitted to be and to remain within their team bench area, unless otherwise stated in these rules.

7.4 The coach and the assistant coach may go to the scorer’s table during the game to obtain statistical information only when the ball becomes dead and the game clock is stopped.

7.6 If there is an assistant coach his name must be entered on the scoresheet before the beginning of the game (his signature is not necessary). He shall assume all duties and powers of the coach if, for any reason, the coach is unable to continue.

So with the above under FIBA rules the only time an assistant coach may leave the team bench area legally is in 7.4. The AC in the stands would be a violation of the rules and should be dealt with accordingly.

Warn first & whack if the behavior continues.

sorry -- there was no seating behind the bench/table area in this gym -- just a few extra feet and a wall. So no one was on that side of the floor that wasn't a part of the game.

I agree with this.

There's nothing that prohibits a coach from sitting in the stands and scouting/gathering information. However, I would say that coach may not communicate with the team for the rest of the game.

If this happened, this is the probably the only way I would notice a coach doing this if they went to the huddle. I would not allow the coach to be apart of the huddle and if they failed to comply then I would charge them with a technical foul.

With that said, I think you could charge a technical foul for the coach returning to the huddle, if you saw him coaching in the stands. That is unsporting and not within fair play and the spirit of the rules. However, as I said before, that's not how I would handle it.

I thought this thread was about the dearly departed Ricky Birdsong formely of Northwestern (RIP)

My name is not Brian. Sorry.

Personally I've got nothing. If he is not disrupting the game I probably wouldn't even notice his movements. If the other team complained then I would advise Game Admin that there is a person coming from the stands and joining the team huddle. I'm thinking that would probably force Coach A to make a decision as to where he wants his AC to spend the rest of the game.

Do not say this to Brian, he might claim you are not following procedure. ;)

Peace

The parking lot would be a good choice. :)

I would love to watch some of your games in all honesty because I have never come across things like this.

Either he is part of the bench or not (and he cannot be both, the HC will have to make a choice and live with it).

If hes not part of the bench hes treated as a fan (so either we ignore it or we have game management deal with it).

If hes bench then either we ignore it or we address it with the HC.

Those are really our only 2 paths here. Doesnt matter if its a college game, high school game, middle school game, summer league (who cares on the level).

The worst I have had was the varsity head coach think he can sit at the end of the game before his and act like a coach. He was offered his choice of pill quickly. He thought I was bluffing and after the first T he shut up. 60 seconds later he stormed out the gym. This isnt all so complicated.

Now if this were a middle school game and a dad or two came down during a timeout or 2 to give his 2 cents to the HC I dont care as that is pretty much the expected at these levels. But in a varsity contest this will NEVER happen. the coach will sit bobby the rest of the game and tell his dad if he tries that again bobby is done.

If I noticed it, and I have to admit I'm more likely to miss it, I would have a short chat with the HC after the TO.

"Coach, if he's an assistant coach he needs to stay at the bench. If he's not, he can't join your huddle."
Insert expected "no one has said that before" comment from coach.
Insert preferred reply to said comment.

After the game, I would contact my assigner and tell them what happened and how I dealt with it; then ask them if that's what they'd like me to do in the future. I've never seen this and don't expect to, so I'm not going to waste my assigner's time on it now.