The seatbelt
 

Had a 9th/JV boys doubleheader last night. I stayed to watch the varsity afterwards, and saw an interesting situation develop.

Home team's center gets called for an illegal screen about 20 seconds into the game (and it was the right call). Home team's coach goes nuts, and during V's possession he walks all the way down to the endline to yell at the official who called the foul (who is working as the Lead on the far side of the court).

Trail official calls a foul on a different home team player, and at the same time, the Lead whacks the coach. Coach and whacking official have a short conversation while the T free-throws are being administered, during which I assume they were talking about the illegal screen call.

Anyway, coach should have the seatbelt for the rest of the game, but about 2 minutes later, he stands up and starts squatting in front of his bench. This squatting/standing routine continues for awhile. Eventually, one of the officials says something to him (I assume to remind him of the seatbelt rule). Coach sits down for another 2-3 minutes, then gets back up again.

I left at halftime, so I don't know if the coach continued the stand-and-squat routine.

How much leeway should you give a coach who ignores the seatbelt? I'm thinking one quick warning, then whack, but I'd be interested to see what others have to say.

I know this won't be the popular position here, but if he's simply squatting in front of his seat, I'm probably not going to get in a pissing match over it. Or eject him. If I need to have a heavy hand, I'm going to pick a spot where I need to have it.

If quiet - perhaps out of habit - a quick reminder then WHACK if it happens again. If they aren't quiet - WHACK and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

It may not be popular, but I agree. If I'm going to eject a coach, it will take a lot more than squatting in front of his seat.

I agree with you, however if he is just squatting and not bothering me anymore, well. I see varsity officials putting up with a lot of BS here in Indiana, where the coaches have 100% of the vote as to whether or not you do post season tourney, so you won't even see the first T anyways.

Is he a squatter?
 

:D:D:D

I mean, was he squatting in front of the bench before he got whacked? A lot of coaches like to squat, or take one knee. Does he habitually squat? I personally can't, my knees hurt too much. If he suddenly adopts squatting as a response to being seat belted, then clearly he's just trying to get away with something. In a sense he's saying #%*@ You, you don't control me! Of course he's correct in the sense that if he controls his own self, he gets to keep doing his job. But he's wrong in the sense that if he can't control :Dhis self, then he's going to be shown the door.

Personally, I don't care how wraped up in a game I am, if I got whacked (only happened 1 time so far), or warned, I'm not going to forget about it. Stay on the bench means sit the hell down & do't get up!

May not be popular here, but it's exactly the way I've seen this handled everywhere I've been. And how I would do it as well. I do not want to file a report and hear what my assigner will tell me if I write that the ejection was because he was squatting in front of his chair coaching his kids. My schedule from that point on would likely be affected, and not in a good way.

I would get rid of the seatbelt rule, personally. The coach wouldn't lose his box for any reason in my world.

Of course, I would expand the box to 28 feet, too, so maybe my opinion isn't the one the NFHS would like to hear.

Here, I think that rule change would simply be a formality.

Had this happen in a Freshmen game. I whacked the visiting coach in the 3rd quarter for a comment he made following a comment he made in the 2nd quarter. Kept standing up, kneeling, squatting, etc. after several times I told him to sit. Giving him the benefit of the doubt (below JV are usually volunteer coaches not getting paid much if anything around here) because he might not have known what the seatbelt is, after the third time he did it I personally went to him face-to-face and said "coach, I'm not sure if you understand this or not. When any HC gets a Technical, he/she loses the coaching box privilege and must sit the rest of the game" and he said "oh ok, I apologize, I didn't know that" and didn't get out of that chair the rest of the game (except for TOs and stuff).

I'm along the same boat as many on here... no second technical if they're right in front of their chair/spot on the bench. Only if they move a step or two in either direction is when they will get the ejection from me. I don't want to write a report up for something simple like that, and have my assignor find out about it to change my schedule around a bit.

I disagree. The coaching box was given to the coaches as a privilege to coach their players better. They still have to understand that they cannot use it to get closer to a referee to verbally disagree with a referee in an unsporting manner. The first two season that the coaching box was instated, I would tell the coaches during the pre-game meeting that they have the coaching box, but to remember that it is there to can coach the players, not to coach us (the officials). I stopped saying that after the second season.

Let's just agree to disagree on this though.:)

Not sure where to start with this, so perhaps I'll just agree to disagree. Nah.

I wouldn't begin to tell a coach what the proper use of his coaching box is -- his job includes more than coaching his players, though. Asking us questions and being an advocate for his team (within reason) is part of his job as a head coach.

The subvarsity coaches in WI don't have a coaching box, BTW. I haven't worked one of those in a while, but I've noticed a lot of coaches squatting in front of their chairs and that wouldn't get a second notice from me.

Back in my early days, before the box, we used to use a rule of thumb that if he can reach his seat and isn't standing, he's fine.

Having never seen this coach prior to last night, I couldn't tell if his stand-and-squat routine was trying to thumb his nose at the officials, or if he was simply so involved in the game that he was forgetting that he was supposed to be seatbelted. Occasionally, he'd be standing to yell instructions to his players, but from what I remember it seemed like he sat back down pretty quickly after that. Maybe his assistants were reminding him to sit down.

I also don't know if he's one of those "known troublemaker" type coaches or not... like I said, I've been to a basketball game for this school before.

Whatever the case, he wasn't causing problems for the officials anymore, so I suppose that's why they left him alone.

I actually had this exact situation happen a couple of years ago. V coach protests a call a little too vigorously, and gets his first T from one of my partners. I had to remind him twice to remain seated after that - one time was a motion from across the floor to sit back down. He understood both both times; he was doing nothing but coaching his team, however he was standing up out of habit, I guess. Finally we had a quick transition, I was old L/new T coming up the court along the bench, and I almost ran into him as he was standing there yelling instructions to his team. Given the fact I had to slow down and change direction slightly to avoid running into him, it seemed like an easy second T. His first look was "What?!?", then, "Oh...alright...I know...", and he left without further incident.

Ever since then I've been known as the only official in my association to toss a coach for coaching his team. A badge I wear with honor, too. :D

Depends. Maybe he was just going to the bathroom. As I said, Depends. :rolleyes:

The rule means that a coach's tuchus is supposed to be in contact with the bench. Squatting in front of the bench is not in compliance with the rule. When the "seat belt" rule was adopted back in 1970-71 (this was prior to adopting the "coaching box" rule) a well known H.S. coach in Western Pennsylvania loved to spend the entire game squatting in front of the bench, and he was told by the PIAA that the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada, the forerunner of the NCAA and NFHS Rules Committees) interepreted the rule as to read that the coach must be seated not squatting in front of the bench.

I will remind him once, maybe twice but if I have to give him the second T I want to be in front of him and not do it from the end line or from across the court.

MTD, Sr.

Mark:

Do you mean Depends as in registered trademark, :D.

MTD, Sr.

Pennsylvania? If some there had their way, there'd still be no coaching box. And 1971? Back then you were too busy working with a pea whistle, counting lack of action, and making sure to get in the Cadillac position. And I was 2 years old.

Much ado about nothing. Worrying about whether a coach's tuchis is touching the bench or not is about 13 on my top ten list of important things to do.

Dammit, Snaqwells. You knew better. You knew better, and you still read his post. 39 lashes!

Kind of like slowing down to look at a bad accident on the highway - you know you shouldn't, but you just can't help yourself.

Saw It On the History Channel ???
 

How do you even know about these?

Neither are really that old, especially the Cadillac.

Seatbelted, Not Glued ...
 

Newbies please note. Even after being "seatbnelted", a coach may still stand in a few situations:

The head coach may stand within the coaching box to request a time-out or signal players to request a time-out, to confer with personnel at the scorer’s table to request a time-out for a correctable error, or a timing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified, to replace or remove a disqualified/injured player or player directed to leave the game, during a charged time-out, or the intermission between quarters and extra periods, to spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a team member or to acknowledge a replaced player, but must immediately return to his seat.

Filed under the LETTER of the Law if not the SPIRIT of the Law:
Had a coach who had been seatbelted and warned. His player went in , drew the foul, made the bucket and the FT would have put them ahead. As the foul is being reported, the coach is jumping up while he was holding the seat against his butt!! I kid you not. He stayed "seated" and was spontaneously reacting to a good play. Probably a little much holding the seat at the same time. I tried it when I got home, have to be very limber!!

That's even more funny because it wasn't necessary.

A little bit of a post-jack. This was back during my high school playing career, about 6 years ago. My coach received a technical and, after being informed of the seat-belt rule (he hadn't coached high school in decades), he spent the rest of the game moving up and down the bench on our, the players, laps. As a side note, no one enjoyed being pulled that game.

How would you guys handle that situation, a coach following the letter of the law (mostly) but not really the intent?

Why is it so hard for people to enforce the rules?

All of those who look the other way on this are doing a disservice to their fellow officials.

Just call this like any other infraction.

This is wholly inappropriate conduct, but I'm not sure I have any tools to address it. The rule says he must be seated. One option would be an unsporting T, I suppose, but it would be a stretch.

One thing's for certain, it would certainly warrant a report to the governing authorities and my assigner (if applicable.)

I seem to remember an interpreation (perhaps from our state interpreter) that the coach has "a" seat. The coach gets to pick which one, but once they're done so, they are not permitted to move to the other end of the bench to a different seat....that is being out of their seat.

I haven't seen that. I do know that if a coach starts in a seat outside the box, he is stuck there the rest of the game and cannot use the box. The concept may be the same for a coach who has lost the privelege.

My first year was 1987. It was the first season of the 3-point line in my state at the time (Pennsylvania). We still had the lack of action, Cadillac mechanics (that survived till the early-to-mid 90s, I think), and Byron collar shirts as well as many officials in belted pants. We also did that funny little count where we flicked our wrists from the waist level instead of swinging our arms as we do now.

Ah, sweet memories. :D

MTD, Sr.

What are "Cadillac mechanics"?

And I forgot the fist straight up to the sky with the requisite delayed bird-dog at the waist.

And also coming in as the trail to administer ALL free throws even though the lead had to come in to announce how many throws were left.

And also the early days of 3-person where the C was always opposite the table and the L would have to swing around if he came ballside (to the C's side).

I'm sure we could go on....

The trail and the lead were always on the "left" side of the court (from their perspective boxing in the play). If you had to "work opposite" because of a throw-in, you'd switch over sides of the court during live ball play at the first opportunity.

Truly baffling that we did that as if we couldn't work the court on the "right" side as well as the "left" side. But we did it for YEARS.

Our association still requires bird-dog on all but player control fouls. :rolleyes:

"The Standard Of Excellence"
 

RichMSN: Nice description.

The trail forced the switch to the very comfortable Cadillac position. I had partners who absolutely hated working opposite. As the trail they would actually run over to the "left" side of the court as soon as possible.

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/nimage/8bc39966bb90b6b2

So was the cadillac position what we would now call the "c"?

If the Lead and Trail tried to always stay on the "left" of the play, would that leave their partner in the cadillac for relatively long periods of time?

It was a two-whistle mechanic that left each partner looking to their right at the players.

...and the "thinking" behind it was that players, being more right handed than left handed, were more likely to drive down the right side of the lane. The "Cadillac" position always put the lead on that side...ready to observe that play.

I May Be Left Handed, But I'm Always Right ...
 

So that's why I seldom got free throws. I'm left handed.

Here in NC we're still required to bird dog. Ugh!