NCAA Backcourt Violation?
 

Throwin by A1, ball in air, B1(with both feet in A's front court) tips ball , A2 goes in air from A's front court, gets control, and lands in backcourt.

Violation, and it's irrelevant where B1's feet are in this play. (assuming NCAA rule is the same as NFHS on this one)

Would B1 at least have to have A's front court status?

No. B1's involvement is that the touch ends the throw-in, thereby excluding the exception that permits a player jumping from the frontcourt to catch a throw-in and land legally in the backcourt.

No. When A1 catches the ball, his FC status (due to having jumped from the FC) establishes both team control and FC status at the same moment. The exception written in the rules allows him to land in the BC, but only if his catch is the first touch of the throw in pass. Once B1 tips the pass, the throw-in exception no longer applies.

For posterity.

Oh puh-lease. Like I've never made a mistake before. :rolleyes:

Sorry, my work day is almost over, and I was feeling a bit ornery.

The poster formerly known as rainmaker would agree with you! :eek:

NCAA Ruling
 

Yes, violation under NCAA rules, at least according to my reading of 2010 NCAA Casebook A.R. 217(1). Sounds like the exact play in question.

Yes, this is a back court violation.

Is this different from NFHS?

No: (approximately) same rule, same exception for a throw-in, same ruling in this case.

Yet if A1 has the throw-in...and A2 touches the throw-in, from A1, in the front-court...then muffs the ball into the backcourt...A2 can go into the backcourt and retrieve the ball with no backcourt violation.

That's what I thought.

But, in the OP it read if B1 (with both feet in A's front court) tips ball, A2 goes in air from A's front court, gets control, and lands in backcourt.

I did not think this would be B/C violation at the high school level.

I'm still not clear that team control has been established in the OP scenario. Does this situation start from the team control aspect or do we have to start with the fact that A2 is in the front court the ball is tipped by B1?

Team control is established as soon as a player holds the ball. That player does not have to be on the floor.

Q: When does that happen in the OP?
A: When A2 catches the ball.

Q: What is the status of the ball once A2 catches it?
A: FC, by virtue of A2's take-off point. He jumped from the FC.

Q: Does the exception for throw-ins apply?
A: No, once th ball was tipped by any player, the throwin is over.

Correctamundo, as the muff does not constitute team control. Any member of team A can retrieve the ball in the backcourt without penalty. Remember to start a 10 sec count!

For the umpteenth time, infidels, read carefully.....

The location of B1 is a red herring. What is salient is B1's touch, which causes the exception to expire . It is as if the throw-in never took place and we judge the ensuing actions on their own merit.

I saw this happen in a 5th/6th grade game last Sunday as I waited for my set to begin, and I had it happen to me in a SophBoys game last night.

In the 5th/6th grade game, the ball was inbouded by A1 under his own goal...ball was tipped by B1 and then A2 (or vice versa - cannot recall exactly - it was bang bang) into the back court. The chase was on and A2 won. The trail official called a back court violation. Is "tipping" the ball considered the same as "muffing" the ball in this team control scenario?

Since there was never team control until A2 got the ball in the BC, there can be no violation under either scenario.

The rule is the same...it would be a violation in HS also. B1's status is of no relevance. B1 touching the ball ends the throw-in. The throw-in exception that allows A2 to jump from frontcourt-to-backcourt is no longer applicable.

Go directly to page 27 of the current FED rules book and read from the bottom of the page where the heading SECTION 12 CONTROL, PLAYER AND TEAM, Article 1

You need to own this definition to be an effective official and not just a hack who wears stripes. There is so much under our responsibility that hinges on these essentials that failure to have a solid grasp of them is unforgiveable.

They got the call wrong. The only time I approached a partner all year was on a similar play. I was lead, she was trail, on a throw-in on the FC endline for A. A1 launches into the backcourt where it may or may not have been tipped in the FC before A2 retrieved it in the BC. She whistled, hesitated, looked at me, and signaled BC. I hit my whistle and went and talked to her about it. She reversed her call and went IW.

The only thing the tip does is end the exception that applies to the throw-in.

This play gets screwed up because officials (and coaches) don't fully understand the way the rule reads; particularly how and when team control is established and why it's not a violation to jump from FC, catch it, and land in the BC.

Thanks, justacoach and snaqwells.