Officials Uniform Problems
 

Here in North Carolina we have gone to the Grey/Black pinstripe shirt for the NCHSAA. I officiated a Middle School game tonight and out of routine I put on my Grey/Black. In the back of my mind though I wondered if they did wear the standard Black/White, but preceded with the Greys. I get there only to see my partner sitting down in his White/Black. The time was 4:05 and the game was at 4:15. I told him my situation and elected to go home and change. I spun the tires out of the parking lot and went 150 down the road.

Needless to say, I made it back in time for game time. But this is one of the many frustrations of Middle School and High School being different here and or the Association electing to change to the Grey/Black.

They do look sharp though, but would like to see a standard for all schools in NC

It is a good idea to always carry a zebra & gray in your bag for just such an occasion.

I agree. However it didn't cover me in this situation 2 years ago. Women's JUCO game, I have no idea who my partners will be (assigner is very unorganized, got our 3rd hours before the game apparently) so I have one of each in my bag. (league allows either) I get there, and 1 partner has the grey/black and the other partner has white/black. No way we could match. Turns out one of the guys on the crew hadn't done JUCO in like 15 years, so he only had the black and white. We ended up with 2 greys and a black and white.

You only take one shirt to a game?

Peace

Always Confirm Games With Athletic Director And Partner ...
 

When you confirm games with your partners, by email, or phone, be sure to ask about which uniform will be worn.

I pack one with a flag and one without a flag.

I have to agree with the others that:

1) You should have taken both shirts -- especially since you were wondering which was correct before you left home

2) You should have arrived earlier than 10 minutes before tip-off, even for a MS game

After having to sign paperwork I stepped onto the court at 4:05.

if you arrive 30 minutes before the game, then you can handle the "paperwork" and have plenty of time to avoid these problems (if you haven't done so already by contacting your partner). people who do not arrive on time to games/meetings/appointments ultimately made a decision earlier in the day that what they were doing was more important than leaving to get to the game on time....

Not 100% true
 

Sometimes "issues" arise and decisions are made for you that are out of your control - no matter how early you leave (traffic, accident, weather, construction, breakdownetc.).

Believe me, I live in the DC area and leave 90 minutes early for a game that's only 15 miles away.....That being said, I've never been close to being late and always have my P's and Assignors numbers close at hand.

I work nothing but varsity HS and juco games, well, except when I don't.

A local guy I've worked youth football with got assigned a state final this year and asked me to cover a middle school game for him if his game conflicted. It did. I did.

I showed up at 3:45PM for the 4:15PM tipoff with my wheeled bag, dressed in nice clothes like I do for every game I work. There was nobody in the gym. I sat down and waited 15 minutes before anyone arrived.

I asked where I could change. The woman shrugged and said, well, there's a bathroom over there. Our officials come dressed. I was clearly an oddball.

My partner walked in at 4:10PM. I had already taken care of the book and talked to the captains. I decided to just relax and have fun, and I did. The guy wasn't the worst partner I've ever had, nor was he the best. The coaches were well behaved, mainly because I think I scared them.

My point is this: Showing up 30 minutes before an early game may make sense until it just doesn't. OTOH, I feel late if I show up less than an hour before a varsity game.

The last season I worked MS games I had the same experiences Rich talks about. It was my first season in that city, and I was working them to get my face out. I stopped, not because I was too good to work those games, but because I couldn't justify getting off work 2 hours early for $12.50/game in 2007.

Two games with 6-minute quarters for $50. It was like stealing. It made me think about doing more of these at some point. :D

Of course, I had to change in the bathroom afterwards and wasn't offered a shower, but I was only 5 minutes from the house and my hot tub.

$12.50 per game? Wow, I don't think I've seen or heard of a game for that little in forever...way before 2007. Did they pay in grain or pelts before 2000?

Why one with a flag and one without? What does it matter?

Peace

I have one Rec partner who shows up right at game time or slightly thereafter every time. After meetings, I have even gone ahead with the jump by myself and then in he walks.....when the league has seven games in one gym for the day you just try to avoid getting behind on game one.

I usually show up at least 30 minutes early too - even for Rec Ball. Just a good habit.

LOL. No idea. I made more than that in small town Iowa when I worked a few middle school games in college back in 1993 (long before I took officiating seriously).

I was surprised when I saw my first check, $37.50 for a three game set. I typically don't ask what the pay is, even now.

Although I did pick up four games this Sunday for $15.00/game; essentially our AAU equivalent from what I can tell. I'm not sure what I was thinking; neither is my wife.

We match as a crew. We either all wear a shirt with a flag or none of us do.

Back in the day, I used to carry flat front and pleated pants for the same reason.

I now come dressed for all junior high games. I learned this the hard way. I wheeled in 30 minutes before game time for a freshman girls game. After meeting my "where can I change?" with a deer in the headlights stare, then huddling up with her assistant coach for several minutes the head coach responds, "You can change in the girls PE locker room. We're done in there for now." So I'm in the girls locker room, just about to strip off, when in walks some random junior high girl with her mother. Turns out it's parent-teacher conference day. Ugh. So I find a nice safe boys restroom to change in.

After the game the coach apologizes and says we can shower and change in the coaches office in the boys locker room. We head in there, I turn on the shower, and settle into a chair for a few minutes to wait for it to warm up. Just as I'm starting to strip off, somebody comes into the locker room and announces for everybody to get out because the visiting team is coming in to change. Good thing I wasn't in the shower already where I might not have heard the announcement. That could have gotten real ugly real fast. :eek:

Yep. Early sub-varsity level games can be a challenge at times and you have to do the best you can - I think everyone understands that.

I agree on the one hour minimum prior for varsity games. Tuesday I had a scheduled 5:45 varsity game & arrived at the gym at 4:15. The JV game was about 2 min into the 2nd quarter and there was only one official - his partner never showed up. I wound up working the 2nd half of the JV game on top of my scheduled varsity game.

Is that a requirement? If it is, what do you do when each of you have different style of shoes?

Peace

I carry 3 different kinds of shoelaces!!! ;)

I jumped in last Saturday morning for girls freshman games and partner had his flag sewn on back just below collar. I asked him why and he said he thought it looked 'neat' there.

Jeff, as you know I'm white and you're African-American, I like to carry my black self in my case for situations like this so we can match:D

It's not a requirement. Why do you care what *I* do?

Is NC the only state that has changed shirt color??

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are. :D

Dallas, Texas uses the gray shirt for varsity, stripes for sub-varsity.

LOL!!!!!

Wow, I needed that laugh today. :D

Peace

Interesting. This year our chapter authorized the grey only for the semi-finals and finals of varsity tournaments.

Yeah I think it was decided on a whim at one of the early association meetings. The president just sort of blurted it out and people started looking at each other wondering if that's what he really said - gray shirts mandatory for varsity. They they repeated it at the next meeting, and it was done. It is purely an association thing. It worked out well - everyone had grays at all my varsity games. I always packed both shirts just in case. It looks sharp.

I was not asking because I care, I am asking because I was curious as to why it was so important to have a shirt with a flag and not with one. Honestly what you do is up to you, but I am not bringing a shirt with a flag anyway nor care if my partner wears one. Matching shirts is the least of my concern.

Peace

I quit bothering with the flagless shirt once I realized that everyone here has one. The benefit of living in a military town.

I do not think it always has to deal with military towns or even focus. For example no one even wore a flag on the shirt in my state (and it was not policy to do so) until the 9-11 events. That happened during football season and everyone ran out and got a flag on their shirt as we were given the option to wear one. By the time basketball season came around nearly over 2 months later it was a hit and miss kind of thing. Actually I rarely see officials to this day wear flags for basketball officiating. It is still very common in football, where as if an official did not wear a flag it would be noticed. And there was a period of time where officials tried to match, but I never put a flag on my shirts because I did not want to mess up a shirt by putting on another patch and hardly use the shirt. Then I soon got over matching as it is often a silly exercise when no one but us cares either way. So I stopped caring and just use plain shirts other than the state patch we must wear. Even in college games I have no patch on any of my shirts.

Peace

I don't see the point other than patriotism. I mean if your in NC obviously you are in the United States officiating. If your calling in France I could see where the flag could come in handy

When I was in Iowa (post 9-11), it wasn't overwhelmingly common from my experience. Here, it is. I can't say for sure if the difference is the fact that it's a military town, as my previous area wasn't a mil town and it was just as ubiquitous. That was as much of a "God and Country" area, though, for folks on both sides of the aisle (I mention that only to note patriotism isn't considered a political issue here so much as I noticed it as such in Des Moines outside of the officiating community).

The state patch is just as idiotic, far as I'm concerned. We don't have one here. I like having no patch on a shirt at all.

I agree with you, BTW, but we always have tried to match flag or no flag. Maybe I'll give that up at some point.

I'm going to disagree with you Rich, as it shows you're properly licensed, otherwise any chooch can go to Dick's, buy a shirt and start 'reffing' which some do on maverick park district stuff. It's very noticable here if you don't have a patch. Another patch of pride is a state final patch which the lucky ones wear and it's also worn with pride. The IHSA in Illinois is a very large and strong association which requires a few things to become licensed. It may sound corny, but I'm proud to wear that patch.

If you've got chucklheads buying shirts and reffing, there's nothing to stop them from getting an IL state patch on their shirt.

The last time I wore a shirt without the IAABO patch (I was matching my unpatched partner in a JV game), some stiff in the stands yelled out, "go back to school and get your patch!" It made me laugh.

I disagree with Rich and agree with full completely. And if we really want to be honest, wearing a flag on an official’s uniform is very inappropriate. We are not governmental employees and we are not in the military. And half the time we have a flag on the uniform you get into a debate as to which way the stars are going on the flag in relationship to the front of the jersey. At least the state patch represents something from the state and is appropriate for what we are doing. Let governmental people wear the flag. I am not representing the country by working a high school basketball game (or any other sport for that matter).

It is so noticed that when I have worked AAU games (which it is not required to wear any patch) in this state, I have been accused of not being a licensed official. :eek:

I also agree with the pride thing, because you often see IHSA officials in NF publications wearing their state patch. The current patch is not as big as it used to be and does not stand out that much, but if you do not wear one everyone seems to notice.

Peace

It sounds corny. Sorry. The barrier to entry just isn't that great to warrant a patch. I had a drawer full of them (the IHSA kept sending them when I was a reciprocal official and I kept throwing them in a drawer, but I gave them to someone).

Six years of being a reciprocal official and nobody ever asked about my lack of a patch. I sure wasn't putting one on for the 8-10 games a season I'd work, mostly around the holidays.

Do you remember the wrist bands that the IHSA had for a season or two right after 9-11? I had bought one, but I only think I ever wore it in one game when both of my partners were wanting to wear it. It just felt out of place for me. I don't even like the feeling of an extra whistle in my back pocket.

So it trying to wear the exact same shirt because one person does not have a flag or not. Just saying. :D

Peace

I don't disagree. I was just saying that it's a thing we (my regular partners) do. I wouldn't think less of guys who didn't. Personally, I would have no flags at all, but I had a partner who made a big deal out of it. He's out of the picture, now, so I'll probably never buy another flag patch. It's an unnecessary expense, IMO.

Does he call backcourt end line throw in violations from the division line?

Something like that.

There is a difference between regular partners and doing it with the expectation that you are not going to be professional if you all do not match the exact same shirt. And even with partners whom I work with, I would laugh at them if they expected I was only going to buy shirts that matched them to the string on the fabric and expect me to put on the exact same patch. In football we can do this as we mainly work with the same guys for all of the season. But we do not freak out when a guy comes and works with us for one game. In basketball I work with too many other people to only do something for those reasons and those reasons alone. All I care about is do we have the same uniform in style, not match the shirt.

Peace

Is it that same partner in the [ahem] video?

We did the same thing in Fort Worth, and it was said to us that it came down from the UIL. Next year we're wearing greys for varsity and possibly sub-varsity too.

Catholic Middle School "Junior Varsity" ...
 

$60.00 here.

Watching a boys varsity game I noticed the two jv refs came out and sat for a spell . couldn't help but notice one of them had a humongous wheeled bag , and thought it was big enough to carry .... what ? Also noticed one ref now wore eyeglasses that he didn't wear during the game he worked !:)

You Don't Want To Deal With Me When I'm Off My Meds ...
 

It's for all my medications.

Glassesless???
 

I wear contacts only when I do games. They go in before pregame and come out during postgame. Glasses the rest of the time.
Maybe I'm giving an impression I didn't know I was giving???!!! :o

That would make sense if it came down from UIL. The only thing we've heard is that this is subject to change. Guess I will hold off buying more shirts for now.

In your case it would sound cheesy:D

Is Wisconsin's association rather loosely based? I'm not familar with it. As I mentioned, IHSA is a big deal here.

The Flag Code ...
 

Rutledge: Are you referring to The United States Code Title 36 Chapter 10 Article 176 J:

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

I did not have the honor and privilege of serving my country, but my late father served in WWII, fought his way across Africa and Italy, and received a medal for his participation in the Battle of Rome Arno. In his honor, and in his memory, I proudly wear a flag patch on my laboratory coat at work. If I'm doing something wrong, then they can come and arrest me.

Our local board started wearing flag patches during the first Persian Gulf War. Recently there has been some discussion regarding all our members wearing a gold trimmed flag patch, often described as being a, "military flag", that should only be worn by military personnel.

Discussions like this regarding the appropriateness of wearing, or not wearing, a flag patch are not just petty "code" debates, but, rather, are reminders to all of us about the importance of a symbol of our freedom, that some take for granted as they move through our everyday lives. Citizens of North Korea, Iran, and other oppressive countries, could be arrested for just discussing the appropriateness of wearing, or not wearing, a flag patch.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3633/...bbd4047b_m.jpg

I don't necessarily like wearing a flag and I would think I have earned the right to wear one or not. Trust me when I tell you, what someone wears does not mean they are willing to support that symbol until the end. I came across countless people in the military that have more business being in jail than serving the country. And some of the people I talk about are high-ranking officials.

If someone doesn't want to wear the flag, they shouldn't wear it.

I will need those retirement checks to keep coming though. :D

I wear the flag with gold trim on my left shoulder because my Association told me it was part of my uniform. End of story for me. If they tell me next year to take it off, then that's what I would do.

But, as have others, I served my country proudly for a great many years and am honored to wear it.

I did too, but IMO a flag is a symbol. My contributions, a fraction of a fraction of the big picture, directy contributed to the safety of this country. That is what I wear (figuratively of course).

Fly, Fight and Win!!!

I've heard this claim made several times but have never see any actual documentation to back it up.

Take Your Pick ???
 

Here's the easy answer:
The gold trim is found on ceremonial flags, to be used indoors and for ceremonies only. They originally were used on military flags. The fringe has no specific significance, but is considered completely within the guidelines of proper flag etiquette. There is nothing in the flag code indicating that the fringe is for federal government flags only. The Internet contains many sites that claim that the fringe indicates martial law or that the Constitution does not apply in that area. These are entirely unfounded and should be dismissed as urban legends, usually citing Executive Order 10834 and inventing text that is not part of the order.

Here's the more complex answer:
The United States Military Flag With The Gold Fringe
FLAG Martial Law; "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The president of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief.
President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a Yellow Fringe border on three sides."
Display Of Military Flag
National flags listed below are for indoor display and for use in ceremonies and parades. For these purposes the United States flag will be rayon banner cloth, trimmed on three sides with golden yellow fringe, 2 1/2 inches wide. It will be the same size as the flags displayed or carried with it.
Any courtroom that displays these flags behind the Judge is a military courtroom. You are under military law and not constitutional law, or common law, or civil law, or statute law.
Unauthorized use of official flags, guidons, and streamers. Display or use of flags, guidons, and streamers or replicas thereof, including those presently or formerly carried by U.S. Army units, by other than the office, individual, or organization for which authorized, is prohibited except as indicated in below.
Use only by recognized United States Army division associations . . . ." United States Army Regulation AR 640-10, October 1, 1979
According to Army Regulations, (AR 840-10, Oct. 1, 1979.) "the Flag is trimmed on three sides with Fringe of Gold, 2 1/2 inches wide," and that, "such flags are flown indoors, ONLY in military courtrooms." And that the Gold Fringed Flag is not to be carried by anyone except units of the United States Army, and the United States Army division associations."
The Authority For Fringe On The Flag Is Specified In Army Regulations, But Only For The National (Military) Flag !
The U.S. Attorney General has stated: "The placing of a gold fringe on the national flag, the dimensions of the flag, and the arrangements of the stars in the union are matters of detail not controlled by statute, but are within the discretion of the President as Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy . . . ancient custom sanctions the use of fringe on regimental colors and standards, but there seems to be no good reason or precedent for its use on other flags . . . the use of such a fringe is prescribed in current Army Regulations, No. 260-10." (See 34 Ops. Atty. Gen. 483 & 485) The only statute or regulation, in the United States, prescribing a yellow fringed United States flag is Army Regulation No. 260-10, making it a military flag.
By Army Regulation 260-10, The Gold Fringe May Be Used Only On Regimental "Colors," The President's Flag, For Military Courts Martial, And The Flags Used At Military Recruiting Centers. "A Military Flag Emblem Of A Nation, Usually Made Of Cloth And Flown From A Staff; From A Military Standpoint Flags Are Of Two General Classes...Those Flown From Stationary Masts Over Army Posts, And Those Carried By Troops In Formation.

Billy,

My father is currently buried in a military cemetery in Memphis, Tennessee. So I do take this rather seriously. And my father served in Korea and his tombstone reflects his service. I do not fell in principle that we should be wearing them on officiating uniforms. Now what others do is their right to do. I am not going to be critical or judge those that do not agree with my position that is the beauty of the country. I just feel patriotism is more than wearing a flag on your shoulder or uniform.

Peace

100%
 

Agree.

Well that's about the closet I've seen, so thanks for posting that Billy. Since US Army regulations do not apply to civilians in most circumstances, I am dubious as to their application outside of a military setting. This is a moot point to me anyways as I do not wear a flag on my uniform but I always find it to be a curious debate.

Billy came out of the closet? No images, please.

C'mon JAR, where's your sense of adventure?

Image please! :p

Well the military is looking at their don't ask, don't tell policy...

Whoops. Should be closest. ;)

Back to this:

NCAA officials don't wear patches, except in their tournament. I would think the barrier to entry there would be considerably higher than getting high school games.

I've worked in 6 different patch states (PA, TN, LA, WA, MA, IL) and I prefer not having to put a patch on uniforms to work games.

(There are some rec assigners here who pay more for licensed officials, but those people always seem to recognize me (the once or twice a year I do rec) from working their town's varsity games, so I never have to show my card. But they could ask for a card, which would go further to identify a licensed official. I could get an extra patch from just about anyone -- doesn't mean I'm actually licensed.)

For me, the best part is not having to have special stuff for the handful of college games I work every season.

I never wear the state patch on my shirt and a lot of guys don't. The only games in Iowa that you have to be certified with the state high school association to work are sanctioned high school games. Middle school games only require one state certified official. It is the responsibility of the school hiring the official (or a conference assigner) to make sure that they are properly certified. If they are doing their job, what you describe above won't happen. You don't have to be certified to work rec league ball here.

I worked varsity ball in Illinois for several years too and never wore a patch there either. It never was a problem. If you aren't certified you should be weeded out by the schools/assigners.

I wore a patch in Oregon, but no patches in Texas. I love not having to tape a patch onto my shirt. It's more a pain than anything.

Varies from conference to conference and supervisor to supervisor. It is not mandatory from the NCAA. It's another one of those "when in Rome" things.

I do not even see this from a conference standpoint. I rarely see officials have them on at all at this level. Not to say I am paying that close attention, I just have not seen it that much.

Peace

Around here, if you want to work men's wreck ball, you have to be certifiable and you get to wear this shirt. ;)

http://rlv.zcache.com/certifiable_nu...55qn4z_400.jpg

I'm guessing that bar is set pretty high in your area.:D

Does ChuckElias know you're using his image? :eek:

Looks like the one in the back is growing rabbit ears. Not a good thing for wreck ball.