Assistant Coach to the Table
 

"10.5.1 Situation C Case Book 2009/10

The coach of Team A leaves the bench area and goes to the table to seek information other than a correctable error:

(a) during a time-out;

(b) during the intermission between the first and second quarters.

RULING:

A technical foul is charged directly to the coach in both (a) and (b). If this information is required, it must be secured by a manager or statistician, etc. when the clock is stopped and the ball is dead. A coach is not permitted at the table for this purpose. To allow exceptions would open the door for exploitation and would result in situations which could not be enforced consistently."

I have an ongoing discussion with a fellow official...

Is there anytime a crew would allow an assistant coach to go to the table...for any reason?

What if a coach says that his "assistant coach" is in fact a "statistician"?

Interesting question. There's no distinction in the book for "assistant coach," and often times the AC's job during the game is to keep track of things (such as a statistician.)

He'd better be holding a pad/book with some statistics on it!

Based on what? What if he left it at his seat? What if he keeps track in his head? What if he's the "manager?" What if the AC's secondary job is to wash the uniforms during the week. Doesn't that make him the manager?

I was being facetious, I don't expect to find a pencil in his ear! I don't know you tell me. As long as he is not the head coach and is at the table for a legitimate reason (and not on a regular basis) I can't see a situation where I would make a big deal about it.

Sorry, I misread (happening a lot today.) I'm with you.

Agreed. There is no real definition of an assistant coach or stat-keeper, manager, etc. They are all just bench personnel.

If it becomes a constant thing, it's worth checking with the table and/or the coach about, but otherwise, no reason to go looking for something.

The general sentiment of the NFHS is to keep the coaches away from the table during the game. As they write, to permit otherwise is to open the door for more.
My take is to not allow an AC near the table.

Three adults on the bench. Head coach and two others, all wearing matching polos. Both of the "other" personnel are keeping some sort of stats during the game, and both are also doing some individual coaching.

Allowed to approach the table or not?

serious question here, NV. How does the Fed define an AC? How are we to differentiate?

1) By rule(above), no.

2) Ask the head coach pre-game who his assistant coaches are and you'll never have to worry about it. :)

1) They don't. They lump the head coach in with his assistants and just call them "coaches". NFHS rule 4-34-2. The head coach is identified and differentiated in other rules.

2) Ask pre-game who the head coach is and then ask him to identify his assistant coaches.

I respectfully disagree with your approach...not because I don't believe your point has validity, but out of a combination of lack of clarity in role definitions and practicality.

1. It certainly doesn't define coaches in 4-34-2, it only states that "coaches" may exist. (We all obviously agree, though the roles are not always clearly defined on a team...a person may play multiple roles.)

2. I honestly don't care who the assistants are. As long as the HC isn't the one going to the table, I've got no problem. And if there are any 'issues' with the communication with the table, then it doesn't matter whether it's an AC or a manager or a statistician, it's going to be handled the same way.

I officiate many games where there are two adults on the bench. One is the HC, and the other is a combination AC/statistician/bookkeeper/defacto manager. If that guy/gal wants to go clarify how many timeouts he has, he can in my game.

You mean like this? :eek:


http://foreskinpress.files.wordpress...cil-in-ear.jpg

Constipated Mathematicians Work It Out With A Pencil ...
 

Better than this:

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/nimage/b342a146eb9e09b8

How do you know what my approach is when I haven't stated my approach yet? And whatintheheck could possibly be more clear than having the head coach tell you who his assistant coaches are? And when did I say anything at all above about practicality?

I very specifically stated "by rule". And "by rule", assistant coaches aren't allowed at the table. Note that I answered specific questions with specific answers. What I didn't do was state how I would personally handle any bench problems. But if you want to know.....

If there's a problem with a coach going to the table, I'll handle it. If there isn't a problem with a coach going to the table, I ain't about to worry about it.

A little clearer now?

Super clear. Thanks. :D

That looks like my official scorer from the other night..that's the look I got every time I went to report a foul!

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Why would it not be better to ask the head coach in the pregame meeting who the stat/manager is that may go to the table should info be needed? We know its not him, and if he designates one of his assistants/statisticians then anyone else is not allowed. No guesswork at that point.

Why micromanage the game? If someone else goes to the table (other than the head coach), why care unless it becomes a problem? Why go looking for something that isn't a problem?

This was my first thought as well. How often do you have someone at the table causing any problems? It's a non-issue until it becomes an issue.

As an AC myself, I will say that one of my roles during the game is to keep track of personal fouls and timeouts, and I am in constant communication with our scorekeeper to make sure that my count is correct.

I will always check in with the scorekeeper at half-time and also during most time-outs as these are the times that he is least busy. I have never had an official question this and as an official I don't have a problem with an AC checking in like that.

The problem arises when a coach is at the table questioning the timekeeper or the official scorer of his/her accuracy. To me that is the behavior that we as officials should be wary of. Not allowing an AC to double check the number of time-outs he has is being an OOO in my opinion.

When my powers that be tell me I need to worry about this, I will. Until then, my HC meeting is very short and to the point.
1. Equipment
2. Let us know on timeouts
3. 2nd horn.
4. The boxes are marked.

Yup, we basically agreed on what we'd both actually do in real life. The rule is there for if/when problems do occur.

Well stated...thanks for your responses.

I sent the link to the official I was having the discussions with.

One of my good friends has called assistant coaches "glorified statisticians" for years. I always liked that term.......:D

it's not the data, it's what you do with it
 

Foul called, possession B. Coach A pops up checks with table, about to let it go. Then she pipes up, ostensibly to teah, "My god, 6 fouls on us, 2 on them". Whack.