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-   -   Player loses his shoe! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/57002-player-loses-his-shoe.html)

Paul LeBoutillier Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:36pm

Player loses his shoe!
 
I've been officiating since 1999 and have never had a kid lose his shoe until last week. There was a tussle for the ball which resulted in a break for the other end of the court. I was on trail and as I ran along there was a shoe lying on the court! (I didn't actually see it come off.) I was definitely taken aback, but when I looked up and saw one of the players making his way down the court with one stocking foot I blew my whistle and gave him a chance to get his shoe back on. Kinda strange.

When stopping the clock for my own reasons (such as a shoe coming off, or a bloody nose, etc) is there any hand signal that is necessary beyond the open hand "stop the clock" gesture? (I usually just point to myself and say, "My time out.")

Also, if this were a fast break situation and the offense looked to have an easy two points, would it be appropriate to wait to stop play until after the lay up so as not to ruin an easy score, or is there a requirement to blow the whistle right away for a lost shoe?

Mark Padgett Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:39pm

Did you call a toe truck? :D

Paul LeBoutillier Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 659653)
Did you call a toe truck? :D

Mark, you haven't changed a bit!! :)

DLH17 Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:41pm

OT: I just became aware that there was a place called "Ontario" in Oregon last week.....funny how stuff like that works.

Mark Padgett Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLH17 (Post 659655)
OT: I just became aware that there was a place called "Ontario" in Oregon last week.....funny how stuff like that works.

Our best named city is Boring, Oregon. Not kidding.

Tim C Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:46pm

Ok,
 
everything else aside: do you guys actually call "an officials time out" for a player puts his show back on?

If appears that happen in the op.

Regards,

Rich Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 659660)
everything else aside: do you guys actually call "an officials time out" for a player puts his show back on?

If appears that happen in the op.

Regards,

I'll do it when the player's team gets the ball and we're not in a fast break / transition.

If the other team has it? No.

Adam Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul LeBoutillier (Post 659652)
Also, if this were a fast break situation and the offense looked to have an easy two points, would it be appropriate to wait to stop play until after the lay up so as not to ruin an easy score, or is there a requirement to blow the whistle right away for a lost shoe?

There's no rules backing to stop the game here at all, let alone immediately. Any game at or above the middle school level, the player retrieve his shoe on his own time.

DLH17 Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 659667)
There's no rules backing to stop the game here at all, let alone immediately. Any game at or above the middle school level, the player retrieve his shoe on his own time.

I say, shame on the player for not having the team trainer tape his shoes on. Won't these kids ever learn?

Adam Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:53pm

As Rich's response indicates, check local listings if you want to get it right.

Honestly, while I will slow down a dead ball, I won't kill the play unless I see a player pull an opponent's shoe off on purpose. In that case, I'll allow him the time to put his shoe on before he shoots his free throws.

mbyron Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 659667)
There's no rules backing to stop the game here at all, let alone immediately. Any game at or above the middle school level, the player retrieve his shoe on his own time.

I'd have rules backing if I judged that a shoe under the basket presented a safety hazard. Otherwise, I agree.

DLH17 Mon Feb 08, 2010 05:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 659656)
Our best named city is Boring, Oregon. Not kidding.

Smells like B.O. :D

Jurassic Referee Mon Feb 08, 2010 06:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim C (Post 659660)
everything else aside: do you guys actually call "an officials time out" for a player puts his show back on?

No. and we train our officials not to stop play either.

Displaced eyeglasses, yes. Shoes, no.

And you won't see play stopped at the NCAA level either for shoes(or you shouldn't).

Rich Mon Feb 08, 2010 06:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 659669)
As Rich's response indicates, check local listings if you want to get it right.

Honestly, while I will slow down a dead ball, I won't kill the play unless I see a player pull an opponent's shoe off on purpose. In that case, I'll allow him the time to put his shoe on before he shoots his free throws.

To be honest, I'm not sure if there is a local listing on this one. The shoe was on the court, though, and I didn't want it to be a hazard going to the other end. If he was holding and/or putting on the shoe, I'd let him do that on his own time.

Paul LeBoutillier Mon Feb 08, 2010 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 659682)
To be honest, I'm not sure if there is a local listing on this one. The shoe was on the court, though, and I didn't want it to be a hazard going to the other end. If he was holding and/or putting on the shoe, I'd let him do that on his own time.

That was kind of the issue Rich. As I was on Trail there was the shoe laying on the court. Do I leave it there and follow the play toward the other end of the court and hope it doesn't become an issue on the other way...or do I kick it off the court as I run by and just expect the coach to call a time out?

Paul LeBoutillier Mon Feb 08, 2010 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 659656)
Our best named city is Boring, Oregon. Not kidding.

I thought "Half Way, Oregon" for the award.

BillyMac Mon Feb 08, 2010 07:16pm

Sock It To Me ...
 
A few weeks ago a player on the Connecticut womens team made a three pointer after losing one shoe. It really happened.

Adam Mon Feb 08, 2010 07:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 659682)
To be honest, I'm not sure if there is a local listing on this one. The shoe was on the court, though, and I didn't want it to be a hazard going to the other end. If he was holding and/or putting on the shoe, I'd let him do that on his own time.

If it's still there when we get back, lying in the middle of the court, I might stop it. I would hope it would disappear by that time, however. If it's a safety issue, ok. But as lead, I might just pick it up on my way through and put it down on the bleachers.

Rich Mon Feb 08, 2010 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 659703)
If it's still there when we get back, lying in the middle of the court, I might stop it. I would hope it would disappear by that time, however. If it's a safety issue, ok. But as lead, I might just pick it up on my way through and put it down on the bleachers.

Eh, I'm ambivalent on this one. I may have had this once in the last 8 years (and it was just last week). I stopped it, nobody said anything, and both teams had subs waiting to enter. I really didn't think twice until I saw this thread today.

Paul LeBoutillier Mon Feb 08, 2010 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 659707)
Eh, I'm ambivalent on this one. I may have had this once in the last 8 years (and it was just last week). I stopped it, nobody said anything, and both teams had subs waiting to enter. I really didn't think twice until I saw this thread today.

Same here. No one minded that I stopped play. Gave the kid a chance to get his shoe on and we started again with OOB throw-in closest to where they had the ball when I blew my whistle. I guess you could argue that a kid on the floor with just one shoe constitutes an unfair advantage for the other team? :rolleyes:

Juulie Downs Mon Feb 08, 2010 08:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 659700)
A few weeks ago a player on the Connecticut womens team made a three pointer after losing one shoe. It really happened.

So, what's your point? Most of the players on the Connecticut women's team could make a 3-pointer after losing one shoe, one contact lens, while facing backward and doing pushups! I'm no Auriemma fan, but that team is absolutely unbelievable!

Loudwhistle Mon Feb 08, 2010 08:25pm

Trumped
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 659656)
Our best named city is Boring, Oregon. Not kidding.

:D Hey I got you beat on that one Mark, we have a town named Tatitlek and the people that live there are called tatitlicks! My kind of people!

BillyMac Mon Feb 08, 2010 08:43pm

Nothing But Net ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs (Post 659717)
Most of the players on the Connecticut women's team could make a 3-pointer after losing one shoe, one contact lens, while facing backward and doing pushups!

They're good, but not this good:

YouTube - Larry Bird vs. Michael Jordan McDonalds commercial

Freddy Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:39pm

A Reverent Moment
 
Officials' timeout...all gather at midcourt for a devout moment of silence for the sole that was lost. Play resumes at POI.

Sorry :p

Thumper68 Tue Feb 09, 2010 08:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 659677)
No. and we train our officials not to stop play either.

Displaced eyeglasses, yes. Shoes, no.

And you won't see play stopped at the NCAA level either for shoes(or you shouldn't).

Is a displaced contact considered the same as displaced eyeglasses? I observed a BV game last week where H1 had a contact come out. He was holding it on the tip of his finger, and asking the official to stop play. Official did not stop play, and waited for the next dead ball. Home coach not happy!

Also what is the rule reference for the eyeglasses. I know that I have read it but am having a brain cramp this morning.

Thanks,

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 09, 2010 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper68 (Post 659871)
Is a displaced contact considered the same as displaced eyeglasses? I observed a BV game last week where H1 had a contact come out. He was holding it on the tip of his finger, and asking the official to stop play. Official did not stop play, and waited for the next dead ball. Home coach not happy!

Also what is the rule reference for the eyeglasses. I know that I have read it but am having a brain cramp this morning.

NFHS rule 5-11EXCEPTION(a)...includes displaced contacts. You stop the game but don't charge the player's team with a TO.

Note that "displaced shoes" are nowhere to be found in that exception.

Adam Tue Feb 09, 2010 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 659881)
NFHS rule 5-11EXCEPTION(a)...includes displaced contacts. You stop the game but don't charge the player's team with a TO.

I've done both this year, first time for each. Weird year.

grunewar Tue Feb 09, 2010 09:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumper68 (Post 659871)
Also what is the rule reference for the eyeglasses. I know that I have read it but am having a brain cramp this morning.

Thanks,

Here's the Rule:

Rule 5 SECTION 11 CHARGED TIME-OUT
ART. 1 . . . A single 60-second time-out charged to a team shall not exceed one minute. A warning signal for the teams to prepare to be ready to resume play is sounded with 15 seconds remaining. Such a time-out shall not be reduced in length unless both teams are ready to play before the time-out is over.
ART. 2 . . . A single 30-second charged time-out shall not exceed 30 seconds.
A warning signal for teams to prepare to be ready to resume play is sounded with 15 seconds remaining. No on-court entertainment should occur during this time.
ART. 3 . . . Only one 60-second time-out is charged (or one 30-second timeout, if that is the only type of time-out remaining) in 5-8-4 regardless of the amount of time consumed when no correction is made.
EXCEPTION: No time-out is charged:
a. If, in 5-8-3, the player’s request results from displaced eyeglasses or lens.
b. If, in 5-8-4, the error or mistake is prevented or rectified.

Thumper68 Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 659881)
NFHS rule 5-11EXCEPTION(a)...includes displaced contacts. You stop the game but don't charge the player's team with a TO.

Note that "displaced shoes" are nowhere to be found in that exception.


Thank you! Thanks to Snaqwells and grunewar as well. My initial reaction was that play should have been stopped for it. I am still studying the books try to look things up before asking, but was stumped this morning.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul LeBoutillier (Post 659697)
That was kind of the issue Rich. As I was on Trail there was the shoe laying on the court. Do I leave it there and follow the play toward the other end of the court and hope it doesn't become an issue on the other way...or do I kick it off the court as I run by and just expect the coach to call a time out?

I would either kick it toward the bench, or beckon someone to come pick it up, depending on where the shoe was (and to whcih team it belonged).

mbyron Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 659882)
I've done both this year, first time for each. Weird year.

Blame el Niņo.

Rich Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 659928)
I would either kick it toward the bench, or beckon someone to come pick it up, depending on where the shoe was (and to whcih team it belonged).

In retrospect, I would've probably treated it the same, but with everyone stopped I didn't see the big deal. Not like this happens often.

Raymond Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 659670)
I'd have rules backing if I judged that a shoe under the basket presented a safety hazard. Otherwise, I agree.

Same here. I stopped a game when one of those facemasks fell off a player. Felt it would have been a safety hazard to all the players on the court.

Definitely was not going to pick it up, toss it, or kick it out the way.

HoopsRefJunior Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 659653)
Did you call a toe truck? :D

What a heal!


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