Most common mistake by refs
 

Just wondering what everyone else here thinks.

As I work with newer refs, it seems like the most common error is placement of the inbound after an over-and-back violation.

I don't know how many times I have seen the ball placed for inbound at the half court line after the ball is touched deep in the backcourt.

Other situations?

Most common mistake by refs
 

anytime we blow the whistle.:eek:

I don't understand the question. What's a "mistake"? :confused:

I thought for sure you would have said OT

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was mistaken. :D

MTD, Sr.

MelbRef:

I would tend to agree with you. Even worse is the fact that there are many veteran officials that make the same mistake. Are you from Melbourne, Florida?

MTD, Sr.

I've heard about those before. only happened once in 62 at a small gym in North Dakota. poor ref was never seen again.

Back on Topic
 

With many of the newer officials (and some older ones too), I'll go with not putting the ball in play at the right location after a violation or when the ball goes out of bounds.

Many would put it in play anywhere if I let them. ;)

I do not think there is a "common" mistake that officials make. We make a lot of different mistakes based on the official and the level. I do not see any one violation or foul that is called that everyone makes consistently.

Maybe I see a lot of officials not report to the table properly. Either they do not stop or they flip hands, but that is no different than officials that make calls that are not there or could have passed on. But I do not see this as "common" as we all are in different stages of development and ability.

Peace

OK - let's be somewhat fair here. Do you mean a mechanics mistake, a rule interp mistake or a judgment mistake?

This Appears To Be A Job For The Mythbusters ...
 

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/...70756e11_m.jpg

Funny you said that. I just worked with an official that is a veteran that put the ball in play after a backcourt violation at the division line, when the touching of the ball (that actually caused the violation) in the backcourt below the top of the 3 point line. I did not make a big deal out of it, but I knew it was wrong. I do not think I have seen someone do that in a long time.

Peace

the most common mistake that officials make (at any level or at any experience level) is simply....not blowing the whistle enough.

99.99999% of problems in a game come from not blowing the whistle. the "default" that most new officials have (which carries over to their later years) is to not blow the whistle.

I had the same situation in reverse. Touch was at the free throw line. I called the violation. Throw-in at the end line. Next timeout, my veteran partner asked what the call was. I told him backcourt. He asked why the throw-in was "down there." I said that's where the violation happened. He said nothing else, but his expression said that he thought I didn't know what I was doing.

This one may be worthy of a spot on Billy Mac's list.

Followed very quickly by calling every little piece of contact a foul. This stage lasts longer, IMO, so I consider it more common at lower levels.

Had a seasoned partner use this diagram to emphasize the throw-in locations could only be the specific spots where the arrows point, especially on the sidelines. Still have scars on my lips as I bit myself to avoid laughing in his face.

It's Already There ...
 

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

And, it's not my list, I'm only the keeper of the list.

So it is worthy.

How do explain those officials then who call every bit of contact a foul?

Sure, they may avoid "problems" but they're calling a horrible game.

By that standard, I guess my partner and I must have called a wonderful game this afternoon (before the Super Bowl). Seventh grade girls - we called a total of only 8 fouls in the entire game! Not a peep from either coach. Final score was 47-17. Maybe that had something to do with it.

Oh yeah - one girl had two of the fouls. I guess she should be considered "The Enforcer". :D

I notice this a lot at camps I am evaluating at or ones I attend for mostly high school officials. There are a lot of calls that I see made that are clearly not fouls or that are not violations. And it really goes for traveling violations. There are many of those that just are not there or not control of the ball.

I will say that I am sometimes unsure on the spot for a throw-in, particularly when a violation or foul is midway between the lane and the arc, if it's sideline or endline.

Maybe everyone was just anxious to get home for the game?! ;)

It would be more helpful if everything inside the arc would go baseline, but mainly you just have to look, make a judgment, and designate the spot. When I work with a partner who doesn't give a spot on a foul or violation, I will go to where I think it is coming in and will try to get the partner to verify. If I can't, I use my best judgment. It's one of my pet peeves.

Agree
 

Hence, why I brought it up back at Post #8.

It's actually one of the few times I might blow my whistle more than once - when I want to get my partner's attention and show him OVER THERE, not where you are now. Where I'm pointing (and pointed to earlier)! And, I'm only going to do this if my P is off by a lot (like when they're on the endline when it should be on the sideline or he's near the free throw lane extended and it should be near the corner).

The thing that aggravates me is when officials go to the spot they're already at just cause it's easier for them. Like when it's obvious we should go sideline and they go endline cause they're already standing there. Or when the throw-in should be opposite side of the lane and they don't go cause they would have to switch sides....

And when I make a call and designate a spot, I expect we go to that spot. If not, I will tweet my whistle and put the administering official there....

And while we're at it......
 

Yep, I'm also not a big fan of the administering official bouncing the ball under the basket across the lane so they don't have to walk a l l t h e w a y over to the player and they can stay where they are. :(

We don't do it in HS games, but I'd have no problem if we incorporated that mechanic. I can manage a throw-in just as easily "tossing across."

Understand. My only real issue with it is when I think my partner is going to cross over to the spot and hand the ball and as the new L I cross over and then they bounce the ball across the lane and I have to go back. I just feel silly.

Could probably pre-game it, but it doesn't come up that much.

That statement reminds me of a lesson I learned early in my modest career (from the trail position on 2 man crew) - pass on the urge to call a traveling violation IF you cannot see the ball. It sounds like a no brainer - however, I got caught up in watching the ballhandler begin a drive to the bucket from my zone to the baseline where he appeared to take too many steps with possession of the ball. In fact, his back was to me....the lead official had a clear view of the ball...ballhandler had lost control of the ball....and I blew my whistle. Mistake.

Ouch.

Never again.

I see it all the time now, though. Great teaching point.

RE: the throw in diagram....

Why do so many officials place the ball for a throw in just outside the lane on the endline, no matter where the violation occurred along the endline (or on the court if we are "pushing" down to the endline)?

I'll let you know when it happens...haven't seen it yet.

Most common mistake ??

Ball watching.....:mad:

On my board the vets running the classes for the 2nd yr. refs trying to make the board literally POUNDED into our heads the need for throw-ins to take place from the proper spot. Aside from it being a rule, they pointed out how an incorrect throw-in spot can present a significant advantage/disadvantage to either the offense or defense depending on the situation.
Our JV game evaluations by the V officials has a section just on throw-ins:

Did we designate the correct spot when calling a violation
Did we indicate the throw-in spot to our P when calling a non-shooting foul
before we reported to the table.
Eye contact with P prior to putting ball in play that we're at the right spot
Communication during T/Os as to throw-in spot and is it a spot throw-in or can they run the line.
Etc, etc, etc. Its a major POE with our board. It's now something i just do automatically every time....even at the rec level (which drives some of my P's nuts).

Mistakes Prominent This Year
 

1) Not stopping the clock with an upraised arm.
2) Calling the all-too-cool "On the Floor!", when "habitual shooting motion" had obviously started.

[QUOTE=MelbRef;659286]Just wondering what everyone else here thinks.

As I work with newer refs, it seems like the most common error is placement of the inbound after an over-and-back violation.

From a new guy....here's just one of mine....
Remembering to get my arm up with open palm when calling a violation.
I have the bad habit (still) of blowing and pointing the direction on OOB plays, and blowing and going straight to the travel signal on traveling calls.
Ditto on carrying, double dribble, kick, etc.
Working on it, esp. down at the rec level where the slower pace has really allowed to focus on proper signals and better timing.

Really?

I watched a JV game last week where they had between 50-60 fouls and at least 20 of those I would've passed on. I'm not exaggerating.

If anything, this is the pattern I see at my games. A little bump, no advantage, foul. What's sad is that nobody seems to complain about it. At the varsity level, they would.

In games involving bad teams
 

No matter how hard they try they can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh**

Mistake?

Nah, the whistle stops the clock in every game I've worked.

It's a local thing.

I was told at a camp regarding the throw in spot that you were not to have a throw in from directly behind the backboard and that if a ball goes out of bounds in the corner to bring the throw in spot 2 or 3 feet up the end line or the sideline as to not pin the thrower dirctly in the corner.
Is this propoer mechanics??

Are you serious? In my experience, the "call everything" stage last far longer (multiple seasons) than the "unable to blow the whistle" stage.

Agreed.

Part of this, I think, is the difference between JV and Varsity basketball.

As someone who does mostly JV at the moment, the difference between bad JV basketball and decent Varsity is pretty huge as far as

A. What kind of contact a player can play through,
B. The ability of a defender to pressure without fouling, and
C. The players ability to grok what is being called and adjust accordingly.

At the varsity level, the guy getting the little bump plays right on through it - at the JV level, he takes two steps dribbles the ball off his face, falls down, and takes out a third player in the process. So you tend to be a little quicker on the whistle.

I watch plenty of Varsity games and think "Damn, that looks a LOT easier to officiate than JV...." The speed and size if faster and bigger of course, but the players are often under MUCH better control on both sides of the ball.

And as a Varsity football official who still does a lot of JV, that is often true in football as well.

Of course, the fact that JV games will generally have less experienced officials has plenty to do with it as well.

I do not agree with that Jeff. As I say in camps I work as a clinician for our state I am often witnessing the younger and inexperienced officials they call a lot of things (not the camps you and I are going to for college). And when I work a varsity game in front of a lesser experienced officials they call a lot of things that just are not there at all. And they get a lot of crap for it. I see where you are going with this and I do agree that as a whole we could blow the whistle more, but I think there are officials that go through stages. And usually one of the stages is to not call anything for fear of criticism. And the other stage is to call everything once they realize they will get yelled at. Then finally the veteran learns that you have to have an equal balance and call what is needed, not just blow the whistle just to blow the whistle.

Peace

What happens in a loud gym ? Not many schools have PTS.

Agree. Except for that grok part - I don't know what that means.....

Those things happen at the varsity level, too, just not as often.

Patient whistles allow us to evaluate advantage/disadvantage better. Once in a while a coach will say a whistle is late. I do my best not to thank him for noticing. :D

My point is that the quick whistle in the JV game means that those guys never get to determine advantage/disadvantage. In some games, most contact would be fouls. In some of the bigger schools, though, JVs play as well as small school varsity and slower whistles would make for better flowing games.

You blow the whistle louder or use one of those new SonikBlasts. :D

Raising the hand on an out-of-bounds call does nothing to improve the clock stopping, in my experience. The officials in non-PTS NCAA games don't raise their hands (in general) and the clock stops just fine.

Thanks Mark
 

and now, I still don't know what it means.....

That has got to hurt. I hope you have never literally "screwed the pooch" on a call...... Not a pretty sight for the fans.

grok (grk)
tr.v. grok·ked, grok·king, groks Slang
To understand profoundly through intuition or empathy.

One of my verbal pet peeves is literally when people misuse the term "literally."

Back to the OP: "Talk too much."

good one.

i always try to remember that 'silence cannot be quoted'.

This.

And it starts in the captains/coaches meetings.

agreed

Me too, especially when it involves "screwing" and "the pooch."
http://www.emotty.com/images/emoticons/1139.png

Yes, Melbourne Florida. Great town, IMO.

I'm a throw-in spot stickler like several of the others, and nowhere moreso than on the endline. Obviously, the ball is never put in inside the lane lines extended so anything that happens in the lane ends up at that spot just outside the lane. However, I'll move players out to the correct spot several times during each game.

"24, take a step out here for me" is a pretty common occurrence in my games.

Me too.

"42, out here."
pause while he moves a little
"Three more steps, please."
pause while he moves to the spot.
"Thank you."

Or, I'll find a marking on the floor, "Right here on the "S"."

Good points on endline throw-in spots.

From a coaches perspective (past life), you will call a timeout with the ball in the lane, to set up a final second in-bound play right under the basket.

Imagine how frustrating it would be when the ball is put in play on the sideline.

Why then, blow the whistle at all?

Lazy on mechanics, generally means lazy elsewhere. (in general)

The trick is to find out which is "lazy" and which is simply a local difference. And if you can't figure it out quickly, perhaps making a charitable assumption is in order.

It's been my experience that an asst coach will usually ask where the ball will be put into play after I, or my partner, report the timeout to the table.

I had a game last week where the AC would ask every time. Other than that, I've been asked less than 5 times all year.

I always make sure my and partner and I know where the ball will be inbounded. Is there NFHS protocol for notifiying one or both coaches/benches?

This is why, in addition to making sure I've designated a spot after granting a timeout (and before reporting it) I am also a big believe in proper mechanics. An official should be at the throw-in spot with the ball. If you're wondering around with the ball, coaches can get confused about where the throw-in spot will be.

If that is all we are required to do (which we doo doo), then that answers the question. :)

Yep, proper mechanics will notify anyone who wants to know. That said, if someone comes out of the huddle to ask we should definitely indicate for them.

It's helpful if you can point to your P and say "right where he's standing."

This.

My favorite officials to watch (sarcasm alert) are the ones who call an out of bounds by just raising their hands and then not pointing at all (perhaps they are just calling out a color verbally, but who knows since I can't hear them from the stands).

We all have our things and there are regional differences everywhere. One of my peeves is the official who doesn't whistle in subs -- in other areas this is perfectly normal. When in Rome, I guess...

That's why the timeout mechanic has one official standing at the spot. If they ask, I'll say "right here" or point to the sideline if I'm standing in front of the bench where the throwin will be.

Had an observer tell our crew to not whistle in subs. He is a guy who helps on the state tournament selection. So I guess it really does matter where you are located. Was told the only time to whistle in subs is if there is no horn.

Which is in direct opposition to the NFHS manual.

In other words, follow the golden rule. He who has the gold.....

2 years in, and I feel I'm still trying to get a "feel" and a recognition for that balance. It's probably the single biggest thing I take notice of when I watch good experienced refs work the V game that follows my JV.
I'm slowly getting better in a lot of areas....still have a long way to go in that one.

Acknowledging the balance is there is the first step. Getting past the "a foul is a foul" mentality is required.

Love To Yank Assistant Coache's Chains ...
 

During a timeout an assistant coach came out of the huddle to ask me where the throwin would be. I pointed to the endline and said, "Right between the T and the S". He replied, "Thanks". I think he thought I was being serious.

Where's the throw-in? is one less question to be asked if the refs are in proper position, but coaches don't always realize that. Sometimes they can't even look at bench to figure out who has the possession of the ball at the beginning of a quarter. Maybe if a crowd is getting excited, I might be a few steps in from the side line, at the throw-in site. Otherwise, if I have the administration for the throw in, where I am, you also will be.

You are not supposed to stand at the spot. At least not all the time or even in many situations it is not possible or recommended.

Peace

Must be an Illinois thing. Fed mechanics have one official at the spot unless the spot is at or near either bench.

You do not stand at the spot if the ball is right by the table. So no it is not an Illinois thing, it is a common sense thing. And the ball can be placed on the floor, but if you have cheerleaders that is not practical a good portion of the time. So no it has nothing to do with my state, it has to do with common sense. And because someone does not do that to the letter, I would not call that a mistake. Mechanics are recommendation, not absolutes in all situations.

Peace

Oh, I agree with this. I just thought you meant something different when you said "you're not supposed to stand at the spot." A small percentage of the spots are at the bench or table, and it's not common that I need to leave the spot for any reason.

I do not know anyone that stands directly at that spot opposite the table either. In many gyms you would stand right on top of the fans. Not sure I would suggest that would be done either. Not all gyms have vast room at the high school level around the court. And I believe the mechanic said in the vicinity, not right on top of the spot. But again, I do not consider this a mistake. I consider this an adjustment.

Peace

I agree. Most coaches ask because they weren't really paying attention to where the ball was when they requested TO. Half the time they don't even remember whose ball it is.

I stand directly at the spot any time possible. I may stand a step or two onto the court if necessary due to fans but I still am out from the spot the throw-in will be administered. And, for the most part, my partners do this. Every once in a while someone doesn't but in my experience that person also tends to not follow a lot of mechanics.

This one just makes sense to me - go where you're supposed to be.

Agree...always at the spot....and for this purpose, the spot includes being a few feet inbounds when there is a good reason to not be too close to the OOB lines.

I am at the "plane" of the spot, but hardly at the spot. As I said it is usually not practical for me because we have cheerleaders that like to go all over the court. And if you are at the spot, you will be in the way often. Even standing on the blocks is tough. I do not see this as a big deal or even something that is necessary. Most coaches hardly pay attention to where the spot the ball is coming in and when they ask you can tell them. I do not see the big deal in telling them. ;)

Peace