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-   -   Pregame running under the basket... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56957-pregame-running-under-basket.html)

eyezen Sat Feb 06, 2010 01:20pm

Pregame running under the basket...
 
question from an referee colleague. .."Where is the rule concerning running under the opponents basket before the game" Is this a fed rule or could I be thinking of a state guideline...I'm thinking somewhere I remember reading about direct path to your side of court which could be interpreted as the above...I'm digging in the book right now but if anyone knows please point me in the right direction

Adam Sat Feb 06, 2010 01:57pm

Not in the book, I don't think. Check state listings.

eyezen Sat Feb 06, 2010 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 659078)
Not in the book, I don't think. Check state listings.

OK, I'm not seeing it either. Thanks. Any MO officials know?

eyezen Sat Feb 06, 2010 02:10pm

Sorry for answering my own question...

Found it in our basketball manual that governs state play:

9. Assignment of each team’s bench and pre-game warm-up basket is to be predetermined by the tournament
manager/committee and all teams notified in advance. The recommended procedure is to let the “home” team
for each game sit on the bench which the host school utilizes during the regular season and conduct their pregame
warm-up at the basket at the opposite end of the floor. Teams are to conduct pre-game and half-time
warm-up on their half of the floor only. If jogging or running is part of their warm-up drills, then it is to be confined
to their half of the court. Teams are to refrain from circling the entire floor when they enter the court to warm-up.
Teams leaving their locker rooms and entering the court are to proceed to their warm-up end of the court by the
most direct route and at no time are they to pass underneath their opponent’s basket. Officials are to enforce
this once their jurisdiction begins by rule by assessing the head coach a technical foul. Tournament managers
are to notify schools of this in advance and enforce it.
10. Participating teams are not permitted to warm-up at half-time of any games except the ones in which they are
playing.

Adam Sat Feb 06, 2010 02:20pm

Looks like tournament rules only?

representing Sat Feb 06, 2010 03:01pm

I believe it is a State thing. In PA, no full court circle running is allowed. You are only allowed to run a circle around your own half of the court during warmup and halftime shooting. The other thing is during introductions, you are not allowed to gather around the center circle after introductions are done for your team. Fights have been known to break out during the race to the center circle. Most teams (as I've seen) now gather around the circle at the foul line.

grunewar Sat Feb 06, 2010 05:22pm

Ditto for Va.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by representing (Post 659093)
I believe it is a State thing. In VA, no full court circle running is allowed. You are only allowed to run a circle around your own half of the court during warmup and halftime shooting. The other thing is during introductions, you are not allowed to gather around the center circle after introductions are done for your team. Fights have been known to break out during the race to the center circle. Most teams (as I've seen) now gather around the circle at the foul line.

I've had to move several teams away from the center circle during pre-game introductions.

CMHCoachNRef Sat Feb 06, 2010 06:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by representing (Post 659093)
I believe it is a State thing. In PA, no full court circle running is allowed. You are only allowed to run a circle around your own half of the court during warmup and halftime shooting. The other thing is during introductions, you are not allowed to gather around the center circle after introductions are done for your team. Fights have been known to break out during the race to the center circle. Most teams (as I've seen) now gather around the circle at the foul line.

It is a State-based rule. In Ohio, such activity was automatically penalized by a technical foul for several years. This year, it is not automatic (I have not seen a single team do it), but can still be called if we view the activity as being a form of taunting or intimidating. Perhaps that concern serves as a deterent from the activity.

brainbrian Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:40pm

I'm also Missouri and I remember this being talked about at the rules meeting I believe 2 years ago.

BillyMac Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:21am

The Land Of Steady Habits ...
 
This is the only limit we have here in Connecticut. It's from our high school athletics governing body:

Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions. Officials will direct players to free throw line area in front of respective benches.

BillyMac Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:22am

Then Show Me ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brainbrian (Post 659170)
I'm also Missouri.

Isn't "Show Me" some kind of law in Missouri?

Rich Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:43am

In WI starters are introduced visitors first and then home. They are required to stay on their sides of the court. No handshakes during introductions (they all do it before the opening jump).

Zoochy Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:53pm

Keith,
This ruling is not just for tournaments. It also applies to regular games. As mentioned by others, Missouri also wants the players to gather on their side of the court during introductions. No Midcourt gathering.

shishstripes Sun Feb 07, 2010 05:22pm

This was addressed by NFHS in the Points of Emphasis in 2002-03 and also in 2003-04. I knew I had read this in a rules book before and dug through my pile of older books and found it.

From 2002-2003 NFHS Rules Book:

3. Sporting Behavior -- Pre-game Situations

The committee discussed specific, inappropriate pre-game situations that must be stopped immediately. Coaches must demonstrate leadership by immediately putting an end to these practices. Officials must be prepared to stop these unsporting acts and penalize the offending team(s) if necessary.

Teams are deliberately running through or disrupting the opponent's pre-game warm-up. Teams are also competing for the center circle when entering the court or following player introductions.
  • The state or local athletic conference should establish appropriate pre-game procedures and protocols. A policy could be established confining teams to their own free-throw semi-circle for pre-game huddles or rituals or that only the home team utilizes the center circle.
  • Coaches should take an active role and establish guidelines for their teams and permit only those pre-game rituals that promote sporting behavior and cannot be interpreted as taunting or baiting the opponent.
  • Officials should be prepared to assess a technical foul to a team member/team demonstrating these unsporting acts. The specific innappropriate actions of a few team members may be individually penalized or the entire team may be assessed one technical foul, if they collectively engage in any inappropriate behavior(s). Since all team members are considered bench personnel before the game and during intermissions, the head coach would also be charged indirectly with the techial foul (10-4-1d; 2-8-1).

So regardless if your state did as advised, we are to be prepared to penalize these unsporting acts.

BillyMac Sun Feb 07, 2010 05:41pm

Unilateral Decision ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shishstripes (Post 659315)
So regardless if your state did as advised, we are to be prepared to penalize these unsporting acts.

The NFHS Point of Emphasis is kind of ambiguous. One section states that state or local athletic conferences should establish appropriate pregame procedures and protocols. Another part states that officials must be prepared to stop these unsporting acts and penalize the offending teams if necessary.

I'd be careful about unilaterally penalizing a team for running around the entire perimeter of the gym, or some similar pregame activity, without the backing of your state high school athletics governing body, especially since this NFHS Point of Emphasis is no longer in the current rulebook.

Jurassic Referee Sun Feb 07, 2010 06:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 659318)
I'd be careful about unilaterally penalizing a team for running around the entire perimeter of the gym, or some similar pregame activity, without the backing of your state high school athletics governing body, especially since this NFHS Point of Emphasis is no longer in the current rulebook.

Why?:confused:

We unilaterally penalize just about all unsporting acts during our jurisdiction, and that includes pre-game also. That's just part of our job description. We don't need a POE or any specific instruction to do that. They're usually judgment calls anyway, and if you judge any act worthy of an unsporting "T", then just call one without bothering to analyze it to death first. Treat it the same as any other "T"----> warn and whack or just whack. In my experience, a warning will usually take care of the problem.

But if you just sit there and watch them though and you do have problems because of it, then those problems are on you.

And note that imo this is another situation that should be brought up with your local association during the pre-season. Get their direction so that everyone in your area is calling it uniformly.

shishstripes Sun Feb 07, 2010 06:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 659318)
I'd be careful about unilaterally penalizing a team for running around the entire perimeter of the gym, or some similar pregame activity, without the backing of your state high school athletics governing body, especially since this NFHS Point of Emphasis is no longer in the current rulebook.

Look at what the POE is asking state associations to adopt procedures for. Has nothing to do with running around the perimeter of the court. And I do understand that the POE is not in the current book but if it is unsporting should we do nothing?

The POE doesn't say to penalize them for running around the perimeter, which I do not think would disrupt their opponents warm-up unless they cut corners where they ran through the other teams warm-up to the point where it is disrupted.

What I pictured and remembered from my years in school was running around the perimeter and when on the opponent's end, cut through the middle of the key straight to center court. Which I remember happening 20+ years ago.

At the same time, how often does this really happen after our jurisdiction begins when we arrive on the court at 15:00?

BillyMac Sun Feb 07, 2010 06:26pm

When Does Rule 10 Begin ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 659324)
This is another situation that should be brought up with your local association during the pre-season. Get their direction so that everyone in your area is calling it uniformly.

It already has: Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions. Officials will direct players to free throw line area in front of respective benches.

Other than the above, that's all our state high school athletics association has come up with. However, once our jurisdiction begins, NFHS Rule 10, specifically unsporting acts, is always in full effect.


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