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Old Thu Feb 04, 2010, 10:00pm
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Trail in 2-Whistle

As trail in 2-whistle games, after working the arc when the ball is on the far wing, I usually end up 15-20 feet on the court.

Where do you usually go / where do you look when the ball gets thrown into the corner?

Do you remain at the top of the arc (not 3-pt arc, the Trail's arc to "work") and look in towards the paint to scan the rest of the floor (assuming your partner picks up the on ball matchup in the corner)?

Or do you move towards the sideline to get into what is like a "C"?

I feel like when I stay at the top of the arc, a shot goes up and it's difficult to close down on.

And I feel like when I slide into a position like a "C", the ball goes back to the wing and back in my PCA.

Obviously this doesn't happen every time, but it seems like I end up in a position where I am away from the action and somewhat lost about where to go quite a bit. Anybody else have this issue? What do you like to do?
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Old Thu Feb 04, 2010, 10:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sseltser View Post

Do you remain at the top of the arc (not 3-pt arc, the Trail's arc to "work") and look in towards the paint to scan the rest of the floor (assuming your partner picks up the on ball matchup in the corner)?
This is what I usually do. I don't like being out in the middle of the court as much, but that is probably because I am still getting used to doing 2 person after 7 years of 3 person.
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Old Thu Feb 04, 2010, 10:29pm
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Originally Posted by sseltser View Post
Or do you move towards the sideline to get into what is like a "C"?
This is what I do most of the time.
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Old Thu Feb 04, 2010, 11:06pm
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Originally Posted by sseltser View Post
Or do you move towards the sideline to get into what is like a "C"?
This is my typical move.

If the ball comes back up, I work the arc again. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 12:12am
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When I'm at the trail position and the ball goes to the opposite corner I usually turn my focus in the paint area. Your partner can't see due to watching the ball. Most of the rough play will happen as the big men jockey for position.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 06:02am
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As always....no matter how we cover it, must be pre-gamed with P.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 08:40am
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When the ball goes into L's corner, why would you move toward the opposite sideline like a C? If you've followed the play to that point, why give up your position? You're in the middle of the court, and can help out with weak side and strong side rebounding, you can watch the paint for 3 second violations, illegal screns, etc. All while your partner is on-ball.

And "What if there is a fast break?" Stand still. The players will go around you.


Your immediate attention should be on what is happening, not what might happen.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 08:44am
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Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 View Post
When I'm at the trail position and the ball goes to the opposite corner I usually turn my focus in the paint area. Your partner can't see due to watching the ball. Most of the rough play will happen as the big men jockey for position.
The reality with 2-person is that when a trail is on ball, the lead's gotta expand his primary to get anything off-ball not in a fairly direct line between the ball handler and the trail. Same goes when the ball drops into the primary of the lead.

When I'm the trail, I go where I need to in order to officiate. If I have to go 2/3 of the way across the court in order to work a defensive matchup involving the ball, I do so -- but the farther on the court I go the deeper I am (if I'm halfway across the court, I'm probably a few steps in the backcourt getting angles). When the ball drops into the lead's primary and I release the ball to my partner, I try to quickly work back closer to the sideline down near the free throw line while looking inside and picking up any post activity and any screening activity. If the ball comes back up, I start working that arc again.

I find that in 2-person, I'm the most active as the trail when teams move the ball around the perimeter a lot. What choice do we really have unless we want to be across the court guessing?
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 08:48am
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Originally Posted by FrankHtown View Post
When the ball goes into L's corner, why would you move toward the opposite sideline like a C? If you've followed the play to that point, why give up your position? You're in the middle of the court, and can help out with weak side and strong side rebounding, you can watch the paint for 3 second violations, illegal screns, etc. All while your partner is on-ball.

And "What if there is a fast break?" Stand still. The players will go around you.


Your immediate attention should be on what is happening, not what might happen.
You keep looking as you move, but I disagree -- you *have* to keep your mind on what might happen, too.

(You aren't getting that position across the court, though, for any other reason but being on ball.)

The position back near the sideline is better for weak side rebounding and also in case there's basket interference and/or goaltending -- making those types of calls from the top of the key is going to be difficult. Also, if there's a quick skip pass over there, the T has sideline responsibility, 3-point shot responsibility, etc.

I don't see it as giving up position -- I see it as getting a better one now that the trail doesn't have on-ball responsibilities anymore. Once the ball pops out, a few quick steps puts you right back in to position.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 09:14am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
You keep looking as you move, but I disagree -- you *have* to keep your mind on what might happen, too.

(You aren't getting that position across the court, though, for any other reason but being on ball.)

The position back near the sideline is better for weak side rebounding and also in case there's basket interference and/or goaltending -- making those types of calls from the top of the key is going to be difficult. Also, if there's a quick skip pass over there, the T has sideline responsibility, 3-point shot responsibility, etc.

I don't see it as giving up position -- I see it as getting a better one now that the trail doesn't have on-ball responsibilities anymore. Once the ball pops out, a few quick steps puts you right back in to position.

It really depends on where the rest of the players are and what they are doing. In many cases, when an offensive player is in the corner on the lead's side, you will have the post player trying to get in position to receive a pass on the far block from your primary, facing the player with the ball. You need to watch this post play since the lead is focused on the player with the ball. If there's a quick pass to the post, as trail, you need to see this play. So I would argue there may be a very good reason to stay deeper onto the court, up above the key to get the best look. It just depends where the other players are and what's happening. I will worry about the rebound action when a shot goes up. Prior to that I am looking at the most significant off-ball matchups and I will position myself wherever I need to be to best see that.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 09:19am
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
It really depends on where the rest of the players are and what they are doing. In many cases, when an offensive player is in the corner on the lead's side, you will have the post player trying to get in position to receive a pass on the far block from your primary, facing the player with the ball. You need to watch this post play since the lead is focused on the player with the ball. If there's a quick pass to the post, as trail, you need to see this play. So I would argue there may be a very good reason to stay deeper onto the court, up above the key to get the best look. It just depends where the other players are and what's happening. I will worry about the rebound action when a shot goes up. Prior to that I am looking at the most significant off-ball matchups and I will position myself wherever I need to be to best see that.
I see this, but I also know that if I'm the lead on ball here, I'm doing my best to get an angle to help on the post play, as well.

As the trail, I'm not taking my focus off here, but I'm not going to stay across so I can look straight down into the post, either. I'll look as I'm sliding a bit back towards the sideline. I'm guessing that in practice we're not that different.

Let's face it -- in 2010, 2-person sucks, especially at the varsity level. It's a lot of doing the best you can. It's unfortunate that around here the coaches and ADs don't understand what they lose by not having 2 officials ball-side.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 09:29am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I see this, but I also know that if I'm the lead on ball here, I'm doing my best to get an angle to help on the post play, as well.

As the trail, I'm not taking my focus off here, but I'm not going to stay across so I can look straight down into the post, either. I'll look as I'm sliding a bit back towards the sideline. I'm guessing that in practice we're not that different.

Let's face it -- in 2010, 2-person sucks, especially at the varsity level. It's a lot of doing the best you can. It's unfortunate that around here the coaches and ADs don't understand what they lose by not having 2 officials ball-side.
It absolutely sucks. I didn't realize it until this year how bad it sucks. I moved from a 2-man state to a 3-man state and fell in love with 3-man as soon as I figured it out. Then was mis-assigned a JV game (so they only assigned 2-man) that ended up being a varsity game. It was then I realized how much we were probably missing and wouldn't have if that 3rd guy was there.

In the OP, I still tend to stay deeper onto the court as a skip pass from one side all the way to the other is a lower percentage option than something closer to the paint. But if everyone is spread out, I may move closer to where you describe. It is difficult to give an all purpose answer to this because it all just depends on what the players are doing - that is what determines where I am to get the best angle on what I'm looking at.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 09:58am
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
It absolutely sucks. I didn't realize it until this year how bad it sucks. I moved from a 2-man state to a 3-man state and fell in love with 3-man as soon as I figured it out. Then was mis-assigned a JV game (so they only assigned 2-man) that ended up being a varsity game. It was then I realized how much we were probably missing and wouldn't have if that 3rd guy was there.

In the OP, I still tend to stay deeper onto the court as a skip pass from one side all the way to the other is a lower percentage option than something closer to the paint. But if everyone is spread out, I may move closer to where you describe. It is difficult to give an all purpose answer to this because it all just depends on what the players are doing - that is what determines where I am to get the best angle on what I'm looking at.
I agree. If those post players are banging each other, I'm not moving. It depends on the activity. I just go where I'm needed -- I've been doing a "3-person rotation" a lot this year when the floor is not balanced and I feel my services are more needed over there.

Matter of fact (and this is the 3-person influence) there are times I'm the lead on ball where I have to force myself away from the post play in order to get the ball matchup. Going from 3 one night to 2 the next and back to 3 isn't the hardest thing in the world, but I'll need to remind myself to get out in the corner once in a while and there was one ball that probably got out on my partner last week when his eyes never left the post (nobody really complained and we kept right on going).

I can already point at 3-4 games on my schedule that could really use 3 officials but we simply don't have them. Oh, well.
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 10:32am
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
The reality with 2-person is that when a trail is on ball, the lead's gotta expand his primary to get anything off-ball not in a fairly direct line between the ball handler and the trail. Same goes when the ball drops into the primary of the lead.

When I'm the trail, I go where I need to in order to officiate. If I have to go 2/3 of the way across the court in order to work a defensive matchup involving the ball, I do so -- but the farther on the court I go the deeper I am (if I'm halfway across the court, I'm probably a few steps in the backcourt getting angles). When the ball drops into the lead's primary and I release the ball to my partner, I try to quickly work back closer to the sideline down near the free throw line while looking inside and picking up any post activity and any screening activity. If the ball comes back up, I start working that arc again.

I find that in 2-person, I'm the most active as the trail when teams move the ball around the perimeter a lot. What choice do we really have unless we want to be across the court guessing?
Rich: Sounds like a good tip. 2nd yr. and I've been working on covering this type of sitch better...but have had a problem with getting a better angle than what I've been. Any other advice you could offer on this? I only have a few more HSJV games left on my schedule and would like to get more confident with the coverage.
Thanks
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Old Fri Feb 05, 2010, 11:07am
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Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
Rich: Sounds like a good tip. 2nd yr. and I've been working on covering this type of sitch better...but have had a problem with getting a better angle than what I've been. Any other advice you could offer on this? I only have a few more HSJV games left on my schedule and would like to get more confident with the coverage.
Thanks
The biggest problem I see watching JV officials work is that they come into the frontcourt, take one step or two over the division line, and plant themselves there. It's one thing I struggle with

When you're on ball (especially), you have to get angles and distance to what you're responsible for. If the ball is taken across the court, you have to go there. It you don't go towards (or into) the backcourt when you go across you will not have the angle you need to see through the defender and the ball handler or you'll be too close.
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