referee has family in high school game
 

my high school team is in a 1a division that is made up of seven schools. two of the refs that is working our games are brother-in laws. they have a nephew that plays on a team that is in our conference. they always work together at the game. should they be booked in our conference or ref at their nephews games?

No, perception is reality IMHO.

Unless there are just simply no other choices, this does not protect the fairness and integrity of the game. No way.

It's up to the folks involved in scheduling. Personally, I would avoid such a game, but I live in a larger city where there are plenty of schools and plenty of officials. Smaller towns may not have the same luxuries.

I can say this...I did a game the other night were the brother of the head coach was my partner. The opposing coach also new it. My partner called a great game with complete unbias but the knowledge of this made the coach feel he was being "hommerd". It caused a lot of problems for me. The coach was constantly on me about being on the same page with my partner. So I guess what I'm saying is it's not easy and would probably avoid it if at all possible.

Let's call the teams 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. If the nephew is on team #1, I would be okay with those two officials working any game not involving team #1, but I can see the point of those who believe that they should refrain from games in that conference altogether.
My state has a regulation preventing an official from working a varsity contest involving a relative. I would avoid the situation even if there were no such prohibition here.

I think it is fair to say, its ok for them to work the conference, but not the game involving a family member..

May not be true. What if they work a game in which a certain team losing would greatly benefit their nephew's team? Or what if one of the teams in that game plays their nephew's team next and they eject their top player so he must sit out that next contest?

There can be many problems.

Happened here too!
 

Happened to my team too!
The team I serve as official scorer for visited another league school.One of the officials was the uncle of a guard on the host team.The crew did a good job but even the appearance of impropriety should be avoided.That means turning the game back!

Note-This is the second time in two years that uncle has officiated a league game that his nephew's team participated in.

Concur About Perception.....
 

I can certainly understand it......

We have two Associations here. One is larger, closer and does my kids' school/conference. The other is smaller, further away, and more spreadout. I joined the smaller, further away Association because I was prohibited from doing my sons' school or anyone in the Conference (understandable). While I have a much longer drive for my games, it turned out to be a good move for me in the long run.

One of my regrets though is that I coached a lot of kids for many yrs and now as they approach their junior and senior years of HS, I rarely get a chance to see their games. Oh well, that's by choice.

I have done a few of their JV/V Summer HS League Games though. Close as I'm going to get.

From Our Code Of Ethics And Conduct ...
 

Board members shall recognize that anything which may lead to a conflict of interest either real or
apparent must be avoided. Gifts, favors, special treatment, privileges, employment or personal
relationship with a school or team which can compromise the perceived impartiality of officiating must be
avoided.

I remember a few years ago a stink was raised about Rick Hartzell (AD at Northern Iowa) working games outside of his conference that could affect UNI's Tournament prospects (bubble teams and all that).

I'm not sure how much you took, but I certainly wouldn't put up with a coach insinuating he was getting cheated, even in this situation.

How far does it go? Should Hartzell be forced to give up working D-I basketball cause he's an AD at a D-I school?

Around here we have a lot of conferences. I live in town A, been here for 2 years now. We get games 2 years in advance. I worked the last 2 years in town A (one game each season). I have no ties to the community, no kids in the district (yet). There's no way I was turning them back. I work about 6 games a season in town A's conference. I'm not cutting my schedule back by 6 games to avoid the conference.

And if you look at subvarsity, many schools hire district teachers and local residents to work those games. Nobody bats an eye at that.

So you are saying that if someone thinks there is a conflict, there is a conflict? That opens up a whole lot of cans of worms if that is true. ;)

Peace

For the record Hartzell left UNI a few years later.

Also a side note to that story. The commentator that raised that issue was ESPN analyst Doug Gottlieb. I actually knew Hartzell's wife as she was an official too and she worked games in front of me at the JUCO level on the Women's side. Well I ran into his wife a few years back at the Big Ten Tournament. She told me that Hartzell took an article in which Referee Magazine wrote about him and the Gottlieb created controversy and Gottlieb was working a game as an analyst. Well Rick Hartzell was officiating and Rick went up to Gottlieb with the article and gave it to Gottlieb before the game started. I guess Gottlieb did not have a lot to say at that point from what I understand.

I agree. Lower levels cannot have the same standard as a varsity contest or in some cases you might not have officials if such a policy were to outlaw anyone that knows anyone or is related to anyone in a lower level game.

Peace

This is a valid point in these situations. My dad still officiates "back home", which is the fairly unpopulated area of Northwest Kansas. He doesn't officiate varsity level games for our home town, but he does other games in the league and in the surrounding area.

If people in this area were to never work a game where a relative (niece/nephew, cousin, etc) played, there wouldn't be enough officials to go around. When I was playing I had cousins on several of the 10 league teams. When you combine that with the fact that my dad has been in that area all his life and that he often knows coaches, parents, and other players even better than these 'relatives' you can see that these issues are going to arise.

He has regular partners, and they typically do one or two games a year (just had one in a league tournament two weeks ago) where one of the coaches is a brother-in-law of one of his partners.

It's just the way it goes in some areas of the country. They're quite happy to just have some competent officials in that part of the state.

That's another good point. Often in these rural areas, families have obviously expanded over the years to where, like you note, cousins will be on teams from several schools in an area. That's why each official is generally left to make this decision on his/her own.

And if that is the only conference in the vicinity for them to work? They should retire from officiating until all their neices and nephews graduate? :rolleyes:

Which by that time there they'll be too old to officiate based on Nevada's standards.

The fact is, in sparsely populated areas like this, you just can't always get away from it.

How far do you take this? 2nd cousins? 3rd cousins?

"Our official last night is the other team's coach's auto mechanic!"
"Our official last night has a son whose wife's younger brother plays on a JV team in our conference!"
"Our official last night has a son whose father in law has a brother whose wife's nephew's fiance is a cheerleder for the other team!"

Now Wait a Minute!
 

This is going too far!

An engaged cheerleader? In HS? That's just wrong! :eek: ;)

Sure does. You and I know it's not true, but to others it can be perceived as such. I can't control what fans may think. So the end result is truth be damned, they believe what they want to.


"Everything you can imagine is real."

---Pablo Picasso---

Hell, if that was the rule in some states, you wouldn't have any officials left to do any games.

West Virginia, Tennessee......






<font size = -7>Just kidding.</font>

Bad Woddy.

Bad, bad Woddy.

Fans do not set the agenda or rules to who will work or not work a game. If that was the case people who lived in the same country, knows someone from a school or just likes or does not dislike a school (according to the fans) would be excluded. This is also why the only requirement for the IHSA is to list what schools you attended and the schools in which you have family or relatives that attend or work at a particular school. And even that seems to involve spouse and children in the policy, not the 3rd or 4th cousin you might not even deal with. Or better yet not the girl you once dated in college. I guess I should not have worked in the football post season in 2 different rounds as I worked schools that were in the town I lived and I had both schools. One school won and another school lost. And yes certain people knew where I lived and it was not an issue anymore than it needed to be. And the year before I worked in the basketball regional with the only private school in my town in a regional and I worked the third round of the playoffs in football with that same school (and I could go back to baseball post season games but you get the idea). I have absolutely no direct ties to these schools other than I live in the same town. I have closer ties to other schools that are completely out of my area, but when I work games my affiliations have nothing to do with my job and I believe that is the case with the vast majority of officials as well.

Peace

People in Hell don't have relatives? :D

But fans are the ones who complain to those who decide who will work the games. It trickles down.

True, but those who make those decisions need to have some stones and make rational decisions.

Agree 100%, but it doesn't always happen. I could give examples.

And that added another 30-40 games to his schedule.

Actually she's still an official. :D

Its my belief that, we as official(most of us) truly conduct ourselves in a professional manner, so as not to give the perception that we would be bias. So, your points may be validity to them, but imo unlikely.

Not in the places I work. Then again, there are too many games for me to worry about what one group of fans think. ;)

Peace

??? 99.8% of the fans around here don't have the slightest idea who assigns games.

Shoot, I work games at my son's high school (he doesn't play) and most of the staff at the game don't even know I'm a parent of a student at their school.

My daughter (9) asked me a few weeks back if I will block her high school when she gets there (scary hypothetical of the week). I told her the only way I'd block her school is if she has friends on one of the teams or if she's playing.

And in my area this is probably even a higher percentage. ;)

Peace

The Catholic school in my hometown assigns its chaplain as one of the referees for each of its boys and girls varsity games. Not quite family, but still a pretty obvious conflict of interest.

This, to me, would strike me as a much bigger conflict of interest than an aunt/uncle/niece/nephew issue.

IMO, working a game in the same conference is perfectly acceptable, but working a game involving the nephew is too close at the HS level, we could look the other way at the ms or rec level

I was talking about principals, ADs, etc.

They play no part in assigning officials around here.

A school can't say "Don't send that official here," in your area?

I can't speak for BNR, but I'm not aware of any such ability here.

They do here.

Oh, please. This isn't even close to the situation of someone working a game involving a family member -- even a distant one. I could take a D-1 AD job right now and have an easier time working a game in that conference (not that I would do that) than I would working the conference of the college I went to.

That would probably ensure that "that official" would be sent to that school.

Only instances of schools having a choice is when they go on the road or neutral site for regional play-off games we are only providing 1 of the officials in a mixed crew; the assigner may call to give them a choice of an official out of a list of 2-3.

Depends on the assignor and the reason. Of course there are assignors that will not send you to places, but there are many that will send you back or need more than the word from the AD to make that claim. And in some cases the coaches have absolutely no say in that issue. Most ADs are professional and do not seem to get that involved in that process. But I work so many leagues I am not going to see every team and in some cases will not see teams for years; I really do not worry about those things. But I have not worked a game because of these so called conflicts that we are talking about. I have worked my alma mater before. It really was not a big deal.

Peace

In our state all of the head coaches gets a 'scratch-list' they can scratch I think 2 maybe 3 officials and they will not ever get that coaches games. But this is all done pre-season.

There is only one coach in the 2 HS conferences I work that knows my name. Even the one coach who thinks I have it out for him :rolleyes: doesn't even know my name. So it would be hard to scratch me.

He doesn't have access to your name?

I'm sure if he cared enough to get it, he could. I'm just guessing, though, but that's how it works here. We don't all sign the book, but we give (or are supposed to) a card to the coaches pregame with our names. If the cards are forgotten or lost, he could still go to the AD and have him find out who was assigned. Most coaches don't care, though, and if they have no way of "blocking" an official, getting the names is pointless.

I live in an area with a lot of active and retired military. So a good portion of our board is transient and not home-grown.

We are rarely requested to sign the book. So the only way would be for a coach/AD to call our commissioner and describe the officials who worked the game. But then that would entail the coach/AD describing the supposed malfeance of the official, which most times would have to involve admitting to some type of poor behavior or malfeance on the part of the coach during said game.

More of a personal touch here, I guess. Usually, either the principal or a coach hands us our checks.

We never get the check from the coach. Normally the AD or his rep, or we get it in the mail later. Normally, it gets mailed. Probably about 30% have a check on site.

It's personal around here too. One of my best friends is the association treasurer. I usually don't have to wait in line at our association meetings to get my check handed to me. :D


As far as coaches and AD's, guess around these parts I truly am just another ref. :cool:

Our chapter's rules interpreter is working a girls' varsity game tonight. His wife coaches the home team.

We either need more officials or more officials who understand when it's appropriate to refuse a game.

It seems if you use Arbiter, somebody at the school has access to all of this information. I don't know for sure what access the AD or coach login has, but some schools I work just verify my name at game time, and someone at the school gets everything else from Arbiter and sends me a check. There is definitely no anonymity.

There is no way a ref can win in this situation even if he calls a perfect game

BIG no-no. Officials with a relative in the game????? I can't believe this is even a question.

At which branch in the family tree is this no longer a concern? Spouse, sibling, offspring--those are easy calls.

But how far does it extend?

That is a good question...But I feel that any "1st" relative would certainly call for discretion.....

You must live in a part of the country where these are all different people.
:D

You're headed to a dwelling in Jurassic's neighborhood.

My thoughts....Immediate family=never take that assignment...graduate of that school=don't wear letter jacket to assignment...close relative like nephew/niece=probably never take that assignment...distant relative=not that big a deal...employee of a particular school=never take that assignment.

I saw 2 situations this year. One the uncle of a player worked 3 of that players home games. He didn't help the team one way or the other but the fans in the stands who don't know of the relationship would have preferred another offficial considereing they believe he he is past his prime of doing varsity games. After watching him work several games they are probably correct.

Second situation an official worked a game for my daughters team. The official is an asst lacrosse coach for the opposing team and several of the girls on that basketball team play on the lacrosse team. I think an obvious conflcit.

Not cool, dude.

regarding your 2nd situation, I generally agree. Curiously, what level? Varsity, JV, freshman?

And His Cousin, Too ???
 

Wasn't Jerry Lee Lewis' fiancé a junior high school cheerleader?