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hoopsaddict Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:37pm

Dealing with Coaches
 
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sseltser Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:47pm

I'm 22 here and in similar shoes. For the first part, I'm sure others will give you great advice, but in general, to make game management easy, it's pretty simple: respond to questions, ignore statements, warn (once) and whack.

If a coach is just whining, either ignore him or kindly let him know that you will only respond to his questions. After these parameters are set, coaches will get the hang of you being down to business and that you won't let them walk over you. They will find the happy medium of which to approach you.

Concerning less experienced partners, I think first, have a good pregame to know how you will handle things like these. If either of you is having trouble managing the game, talk during a TO or intermission and make sure each other is aware of and issues and any warnings. Besides that, only bite off what you can chew: there's not much reason to go meddling in your partner's dealings with the coaches, unless it becomes clearly unsporting where it needs a T.

Adam Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:57pm

In your situation, it sounds like a T was a good call. Don't look back. The best thing you can do is just take care of business. Be ready to ignore comments, answer questions, and punish unsporting behavior. Be ready to do all of them without regret.

At this stage, just simply deal with your own communication skills. Don't worry about your partner, he can (or should be able to) take care of himself.

CDurham Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:04pm

Im 18 and in my 2nd year. I have had some technicals (as any other official) on coaches and players. You just have to have a confidence and strong presence. I had one that tried to pull the "I know your young and ....." but you just have to tell them "dont go there, thats enough" and put up the hand and be stern. But always be respectful to them no matter how fussy they get. Once you warn them if they dont hear it then WHACK them, a warning is not a warning if you keep giving warnings. I do try though to give a little room and calm the coach down as much as possible, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

As to the other official, like Seltser said have a good pregame. If you have that it shouldn't be too bad, but you can never help another official with themselves. Do your thing and let him do his, but you are still a team.

bas2456 Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:17pm

22 and first year myself.

I honestly haven't gotten the feeling that coaches look down on me because of my age. I try to act as professionally as I can when I'm on the court, so maybe it's working.

Most of the coaches I've dealt with this year (mostly freshman and some sophomore), though, can't be much older than me though.

Just try your best to act like a vet on the court and the coach will get the message.

Adam Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDurham (Post 657952)
Im 18 and in my 2nd year. I have had some technicals (as any other official) on coaches and players. You just have to have a confidence and strong presence. I had one that tried to pull the "I know your young and ....." but you just have to tell them "dont go there, thats enough" and put up the hand and be stern. But always be respectful to them no matter how fussy they get. Once you warn them if they dont hear it then WHACK them, a warning is not a warning if you keep giving warnings. I do try though to give a little room and calm the coach down as much as possible, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

As to the other official, like Seltser said have a good pregame. If you have that it shouldn't be too bad, but you can never help another official with themselves. Do your thing and let him do his, but you are still a team.

Question, how well has putting the hand up worked for you? IOW, how often do you have to issue a T when you use it?

I ask because I can't imagine it working that well, especially with an official whom the coach sees as young. But I'm open to being wrong on this.

My further advice is to speak to coaches like adults, with respect.

APG Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:37am

Twenty-two here and in my second year doing high school basketball. I do the full gauntlet from 7th grade middle school games to varsity. I haven't really had an issue of coaches looking down on me or trying to pick on me due to age. That's not to say a coach hasn't tried. If you handle yourself well out there and do things professionally, I've found coaches will treat you like any other.

As others have said, answer appropriate questions and ignore comments. When those comments start to be prolonged, profane, and/or personal, warn the coach (some will suggest using the stop sign; I'm not one to use it, but see what works for you) and tell your partner(s) of said warning. If coach has been warned, you have to follow through if coach crosses the line. Sometimes though, coach will cross the line before you can give him a warning, and you just have to give a T. Nothing necessarily wrong with that.

Have you tried asking members, of similar age, in your association about their experiences with coaches? I know when I started out, I asked all the questions I could with all the veterans in my association, but I especially reached out to the younger varsity officials to get their insight and see how they handled themselves.

Fathertime Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:31am

You'll get better with age
 
To the original question, I think there might be some truth to a coach treating you different because of your youth, because maybe he thinks he can rattle and influence you. But on the other hand, your youth may hinder your own self-confidence now vs. when you reach your upper twenties and thirties. In my early 20s, I was barely starting to deal with the stress of mortgages, layoffs at work, and other pressures. Everything seemed bigger than it really was. As I aged, I developed a thicker skin and now the way a coach treats me is much easier to deal with. You can't underestimate experience, which will come.

Stay strong in your game and maintain control of yourself. Use confident mechanics. Keep your cool in a heated situation. Minimize your reactions when you can, but T if you must. If you give the coach the perception that he can't phase you, even at your age, he'll back off (and try to find a different way to influence you). In any case, it is almost never personal (I never say never). Best of luck.

BillyMac Wed Feb 03, 2010 07:36am

Communciating With Coaches ...
 
General Techniques:
Statements by coaches don’t normally need a response. Answer questions, not statements.
Let the coach ask their question first, before speaking. Be a responder, not an initiator.
Most coaches will have questions when they believe the officials have missed an obvious call.
Having the officials in closer proximity often calms down the coach.
Be in control and speak in calm, easy tones. Be aware of your body language; maintain positive and confident
body language.
Make eye contact with the coach when the situation allows.
Do not try to answer a question from an out of control coach; deal with the behavior first.
If you’ve missed a call or made a mistake; admit it. This technique can only be used sparingly, perhaps
once a game.
Don’t bluff your way through a call.
Do not ignore a coach.

Specific Communication Examples:

Coach sees the play very differently than the official:
“Coach, if that’s the way it happened/what you saw, then I must have missed it. I’ll take a closer look next
time.”
“Coach, I understand what you’re saying, however, on that play I didn’t see it that way. I’ll keep an eye for it
on both ends.”
“Coach, I had a good look at that play and here’s what I saw (short explanation).”
“Coach, I understand what you’re saying, but my angle was different than yours.”
“Coach, I had a great look at that play, but I understand your question and I’ll have the crew keep an eye on it.”
“Coach, I had that play all the way and made the call.”

Coach believes you’re missing persistent illegal acts by the other team:
“OK coach, we’ll watch for that.”
“Coach, we are watching for that on both ends of the court.”

Coach is questioning a partner’s call:
“Coach, that’s a good call, as a crew we have to make that call.”
“We’re calling it on both ends.”
“Coach, he/she was right there and had a great angle.”
“Coach, we’re not going there, I can’t let you criticize my partner.”
“Coach, he/she had a great look, but if you have a specific question, you’ll have to ask him/her, he/she’ll be
over here in just a minute.”

Coach is very animated and gesturing:
“Coach, I’m going to talk with you and answer your questions, but you must put your arms down/stop the
gesturing.”
“Coach, please put your arms down. Now, what’s your question?”

Coach is raising their voice asking the question:
“Coach, I can hear you. I’m standing right here, you don’t need to raise your voice.”
"Coach, I need you to stop raising your voice and just ask your question calmly.”

Coach is commenting on something every time down the floor:
“Coach, I need you to pick your spots, we can’t have a comment on every single call that is being made.”
"Coach, I can't have you officiating this game."
"Coach, I understand you're not going to agree with all of our calls, but I can't have you question every
single one."
"Coach, if you have a question, I'll answer if I have a chance, but we aren't going to have these constant
comments."

Coach has a good point and might be right.
“You’ve got a good point and might be right about that play.”
“You might be right, that’s one we’ll talk about at halftime/intermission/the next time out.”
“You might be right; I may not have had the best angle on that play.”

Coach is venting, make editorial comments:
“I hear what you’re saying”
“I hear what you’re saying, but we’re moving on.”

Coach just won’t let it go:
“I’ve heard enough and that’s your warning.”

Original Source: Topeka (Kansas) Officials Association

mbyron Wed Feb 03, 2010 07:47am

Some coaches will always look for an angle to work the officials. You're young or you're old, you're overweight or too scrawny, you're a woman, you haven't been doing this as long as I have, you look funny, that's some haircut, whatever.

Officiating is a management task, and you don't control the behavior of those you manage. All you can do is react properly to whatever they do. Sometimes that means ignoring it, sometimes penalizing it, sometimes just talking. Reacting properly is key.

What you control is your own behavior. Bad coach behavior is never about you (they just met you, or in any case rarely know you), it's about them. Even if you make a mistake, remember that you're human and your mistakes don't license anyone's bad behavior. Don't take it personally, just deal with it when it happens.

Work hard to improve in every respect: rules, mechanics, game management. The first two are easier than the third, which results from wide and thoughtful experience and takes time.

Rich Wed Feb 03, 2010 08:00am

Some coaches, BTW, are just jerks. Once you accept that and just deal with the bad behavior, you'll be better off.

Last night I was working a local legend in his own mind. This guy works officials beginning to end, and I was the one in his lap when he had a 20+point lead with 2 seconds left and one of his players hit a little floater that had a little bump with 2 seconds left. I passed on it the same way I would've passed on that little contact and he really gives it to me:

"AND ONE. That's a foul! Don't stop working now!"

And on and on as the horn sounds. And I'm laughing as I run off the court.

And let me be quite clear -- because of this kind of crap, I have absolutely zero respect for him even though he's probably got 30 years and multiple state titles. If I saw him broken down on the highway, I'd probably wave as I drove past. But I can't let that affect me on the court. And the problem is his, not mine.

chartrusepengui Wed Feb 03, 2010 08:30am

Sometimes coaches will try and intimidate an official they believe does not have a lot of experience. Don't get angry and frustrated. Sounds like you did a good job. If he is walking towards you, and I am assuming he was not in coaching box, then a T is warranted and justified. He should know the rules. By showing that you too know the rules and are willing to administer them - he will hopefully show you more respect and reign in his attempts to influence/intimidate you. If not - he can always go to the locker room.

As previously stated - speak to coaches with respect as a professional. Hold yourself to a high standard and others will learn to respect you regardless of your age.

TrojanHorse Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:10pm

Having been an official, and now a coach, I want to know that I am heard. What I mean by that, If i ask a question, I just want an answer. I do not talk much to the officials to begin with. But I have noticed here in our area, our newer officials are being taught to ignore coaches. I think this is going down a bad road. We have all seen the coaches that act up and not punished.

deecee Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:33pm

When I was younger I was much quicker with my T's and didnt really chat with coaches. Now I have no problem talking with them but I have a line and I treat them all the same. I don't take any crap from coaches and/or players. On the other hand I will have a civil discussion when applicable with anyone (HC, AC, players).

The thing with my early Ts when I was a whippersnapper is that I have heard rumblings when coaches who dont know me start to yap, but parents and kids do, and they say "Don't try that with him, he don't deal with BS"

Ive heard that on a few occassions and it brings a smile to my face.

deecee Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse (Post 658086)
Having been an official, and now a coach, I want to know that I am heard. What I mean by that, If i ask a question, I just want an answer. I do not talk much to the officials to begin with. But I have noticed here in our area, our newer officials are being taught to ignore coaches. I think this is going down a bad road. We have all seen the coaches that act up and not punished.

I can speak from experience that newer officials are better off NOt talking a lot to coaches. Until they get comfortable dealing with the game on the court the side bars do a couple things. First they distract them as they are not yet adept to managing many things on the fly. Secondly Their fuses are either lighting quick or non existent. either way these are 2 extremes that do not help in building coach/official relations.

I think it takes at least 2-3 years for an official to be able to comfortably talk with coaches/players and just be themselves. I can say the hardest thing when I started was while there was action a coach was on me complaining/questioning what just happened. Now I can have a lengthy conversation with both coach, while officiating and sipping a frappucino.

doubleringer Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:58pm

I'd say make sure your mechanics are strong and crisp. They guy that taught me used to tell us that 90% or more of officiating is looking like you know what's going on. The more calm and confident you appear, the less crap you're going to take. I agree with Deecee that early on, you're better off avoiding conversations with coaches. Every time I've moved up and joined a better league, I've made a conscious effort to avoid the coaches until they get to know my face. I have heard of some college assignors that will tell 1st year guys in their leagues not to talk to coaches, period.

Good T btw. There's no worse feeling in the world of officiating than walking out of a gym knowing you should have assessed a T and didn't. Over time you'll know when you have to bring the hammer and when you can talk your way out of it. Its a constant learning curve no matter how long and what levels you've worked.

chartrusepengui Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:13pm

A guy that just retired from officiating this past year used to tell newbies:

"when in doubt - use your clout - it's always easier to ease up the next time"

CDurham Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 657965)
Question, how well has putting the hand up worked for you? IOW, how often do you have to issue a T when you use it?

I ask because I can't imagine it working that well, especially with an official whom the coach sees as young. But I'm open to being wrong on this.

My further advice is to speak to coaches like adults, with respect.

The only reason I put up my hand is in case my booking agent or the school reviews the tape they will see I was giving him a warning not only verbally but visually as well. You never know what the coach might tell them I said but they can always see the hand up.

I haven't had any T's while I'm giving the hand. They were on later in the game after that initial warning.

Adam Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:36pm

I wondered if it wasn't for some sort of visual evidence. IMO, the visual evidence is worthless. Either your assigner accepts your word, or he doesn't.

If he does, the tape isn't necessary. If he doesn't, it's not going to be enough.

Coach: "I asked what my player did on the foul he called, and he blew me off by putting his hand in the air. I asked again, and he gave me a T."

CDurham Wed Feb 03, 2010 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 658142)
I wondered if it wasn't for some sort of visual evidence. IMO, the visual evidence is worthless. Either your assigner accepts your word, or he doesn't.

If he does, the tape isn't necessary. If he doesn't, it's not going to be enough.

Coach: "I asked what my player did on the foul he called, and he blew me off by putting his hand in the air. I asked again, and he gave me a T."

Well Kenny (the assigner) is always on our side and always hears our side first. However, I like to make sure if the tape is reviewed all the evidence is pointing to the coach/player (hand, eye contact, ect). I understand he cant go solely on our word and sometimes he needs to review the tape if an accusation is thrown out there or situation

j51969 Wed Feb 03, 2010 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsaddict (Post 657941)
I'm hoping some of the vets on here can give me some advice. I am turning 21 in April doing JV/Freshman games and tend to think that coaches get on me a little more than your average official because of my age. Considering I really can pass for about 16 or 17. What are some good pointers to dealing with coaches? I had to give a coach a "T" tonight in boys freshman game after he stood up and walked toward me whinning for a travel call. In retrospect I wish I could have dealt with it different and not have given the T there. One thing I think I could have done was ask the coach he if wanted a full or a thirty. What are your thoughts?

Also another question tonight I ref'd with a official who had less experience then I do and to say the least the guy wasn't much help with game management. How do you deal with partners that tend to be a little weaker then you are while you your self our still working towards gaining confidence?

Thanks for the advice!


I had a coach the other day whose team wasn't playing very well, and he was in my partner and I for most of the 1st half. We didn't pay much attention to it except for a couple of explanations during freethrows. In the second half he admitted he was frustrated with his players and had taken it out on us in the 1st half. I turned to his bench and said "I expect to get worked a little during and game coach, and I would feel cheated if you never said anything". He laughed. I think that lets them know you are willing to listen and aren't intimitdated during your interactions. I have pinned one coach this year and he knew it was coming. I treat it like any other foul, with the same emotion. report, assess, and move on. Let one of your partners buckle him in and move opposite side. This gives him/her a chance to cool down if he feels further explanation on a foul is warranted. I have always felt if they are pissed, and you are going to stay table side with your *** in there face they deserve a little rope. That's why we pre-game T's on the coach and how we will handle it. Some guys may feel different, this is just one way of handling it.

smginnis Wed Feb 03, 2010 02:36pm

I'm "younger" too, and from my experience there is no bigger tool you can have than knowing the rules. It'll take a long time to learn all of the one offs discussed in this board, but really get your head in the book and know the rules that are most prevalent to the game and that coach's commonly complain about. If you have not experienced it already, coach's complaints tend to revolve around traveling, lane violations, and most commonly fouls.

If you can recite a few rules and show that your calls are justified by correctly applying said rules, you'll gain instant credibility.

Use definitive terms like: legal guarding position, displacement, and suspension of the three second count. Coach's realize that either, a) you know what you are talking about or b) that they might not know what they are talking about.

I think talking with coaches willhelp you gain credibility as long as they are willing to test you with a QUESTION. As said earlier, complaints and commands don't warrant a response. Of course if you don't know a certain rule, you will have to stick with your favorite blanket statement provided earlier.

Adam Wed Feb 03, 2010 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDurham (Post 658147)
Well Kenny (the assigner) is always on our side and always hears our side first. However, I like to make sure if the tape is reviewed all the evidence is pointing to the coach/player (hand, eye contact, ect). I understand he cant go solely on our word and sometimes he needs to review the tape if an accusation is thrown out there or situation

I suppose there may be some areas where it's an expected, acknowledged, and accepted signal. Where I've worked, not so much. Personally, I'd view it as unnecessarily dismissive and insulting.

Unless you're told differently by your assigner's trainers and mentors, I'd recommend against using it. I've only had it backfire, others use it with success.

I have used it on players with success, but the authority angle is different there. Coaches are used to being respected and treated as adults. We don't want them to show us up in front of the crowd, so I would prefer to extend them the same courtesy and warn them quietly. Video will confirm this just as much as the stop sign.

That's just me, tough.


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