The Spin Move
 

I searched for previous threads on this topic but I came up empty. I apologize if it's been debated already.

In the past couple weeks I have watched multiple NCAA games. With the benefit of a DVR with pause/rewind function, I have been analyzing the spin move. In the vast majority of instances (I'd say 10 out of 12), it is CLEARLY a travel. The other two were inconclusive due to traffic in the lane. The key obviously is finding and watching what happens with the pivot foot. My interest in this move resulted from a recent game of mine where I whistled a B-V player THREE times for traveling while attempting spin moves. Coach claimed nobody whistled the kid all season for it, and I believe him. Therein lies my frustration. Very few of my peers seem to be calling it. Very few NCAA D1 officials seem to call it.

Am I on an island here? Should I just lay off and go with the flow?

I welcome all opinions.

I called two last night. Clear change of pivot foot. Coached asked about it and didn't seem surprised by my response.

I don't guarantee I get all of them, but I do my best.

You're not on an island. I see the same thing a lot. All you need to see are the before and after pictures. Both feet are on the floor. Both feet on the floor again several feet away. No dribble in between. Not hard to figure.

I had one the other night where I had to look away from the ball cause there was a serious turf war in front of me that required my attention (2-person). When I looked back not a second or two later, I notice the pivot foot had changed. Nobody said a word and I couldn't call it then. I wish I had stayed on-ball, but there wasn't great pressure and I felt the impending doom in front of me was more important.

I had a coach claim the similar, "You're the first one to call it," a few games ago. My response: "Thank you."

Coach laughed. Fans laughed. Players laughed.

A few trips later, wehn I was in front of the bench, coach said, "I guess I have to stop giving you compliments."

(Note: Use at your own risk. But, you can at least think it.)

Stolen! I love it!

Anyone have a theory as to why it's seldom called at high level D1?

Game interrupter.

I'm not advocating that view, just offering it in answer to the question.

I feel like I'm on an island too from my chapter, with a few other officials. Some officials just would not call this, even if in plain sight. Yet I get all of the grief from coaches when I call it, and it was clearly a travel.

Not only do they not call it, tv replays it and brags on what a beautiful move it was.

And then when the kid who does it in my game gets called for it, I get, "hey ref, ever watch any basketball?" :rolleyes:

Part of my pregame to the boys includes something like this:

"We are not NBA officials, and you are not NBA players. Know where your pivot foot is. Dribble with your hand on top of the ball. Every time you watch Kobe and Lebron on Sportscenter, you will see something that is pretty to watch, and most likely will be illegal in this game tonight."

I know what you mean. But that's about 50 words longer than my captains' meeting spiel. ;)

Name That Tune, Basketball Officials Edition ...
 

Wow? You have a four word captains' meeting? Can anybody beat that? How about a three word meeting? Winner gets to select a prize from the top shelf.

Anybody got a question?

Anybody gotta question?

I Can Do My Pregame In One Word ...
 

"Questions?"

What do I win?

Contest sponsors and their families are ineligible.

"Not tonight, coach, that's for sure!"

Please tell me you're being sarcastic and don't really say that...

Quite serious, actually. Some of them even nod knowingly.

To each their own I guess but I'll keep this professional and just say ...completely unnecessary

Unnecessary? You could say that. Just think of it as providing information they can use in a language they might understand.

My grandfather used to smile and nod when he couldn't hear what we were saying. They may be nodding, but I doubt they are listening. If of the ones who listen, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority forget what you said by the time you say, "any questions?"

Yep. (nodding) I understand and agree with what you are saying. :)

Out on a limb here, but maybe there's some influence from the Non-Basketball Association involved.

Recently, I've seen couple coaches teach a version of the spin move that was clearly illegal. One referred to it as the "Earl Monroe" move, so I went back and looked at some old Pearl footage. The coach had been teaching a move where the player essentially whips the ball around the body with one hand while making a running reverse pivot - looked illegal as hell to me. Monroe, on the other hand, incorporated a dribble into his spin, switch his dribbling hand as the ball was behind him - gorgeous and perfectly legal to my eye.

See:
YouTube - Ultimate Earl "The Pearl" Monroe MIX

Agreed. My captains speech is as short as possible, and I try and make it shorter every season. Not only is it a waste of time trying to educate them on these pearls of wisdom, what's the point in only telling just the captains? Do you think they are going to go back to their teammates and huddle everyone together and say "OK guys, this is not the NBA..."?

They don't do that in Dallas, Dave? I know here in Portland, the captains ALWAYS bustle right back and have a little powwow in the huddle. If they don't hurry, the other players start chanting, "Tell us, too! Tell us, too!" Players just hang on the refs' every word! :rolleyes:

I've had one partner with a shorter captains meeting than mine this year. Mine: "Make sure your teammates have their earrings out. Help us with sportsmanship by taking care of your teammates so we don't have to."
His: "Put the ball in the hole and lets play ball."

I've also had the guy who needs to point to every line in the captains meeting and then explain the CE rule to the coaches. He's a great partner in spite of that though, so I learned that a long winded captains/coaches meeting does not necessarily mean a long game.

ROTFLMAO!

I was going to make a joke about freshman girls, Juulie, but I thought better of it. :)

I'm still trying to figure out what they do in Dallas. I was the R in a freshman boys game last week and gave my quick captain's speech and asked my partner if he had anything to add, and he went off on a 2 minute rant about ridiculous topics like what happens if we have a fight, etc. I was half asleep by the time he was done, so I can only imagine how these poor kids could remain standing. My response when I'm not the 'R' and they ask me if I have anything to add: "Good luck."

I stole my captains speech from someone in this forum who shared it a few months ago:

Respect the game, respect your opponents, and respect the officials. Everything else is just basketball. Good luck.

"I need a spokesperson from each team."

Wait.

"Be good sports. Have fun."

I had to bite my lip when a partner a few weeks ago started talking about hand checks and post play and....I don't remember cause I tuned out right about then.

The Three B's of the Captain's Meeting
 

Be Brief, Be Bright, and Be Gone.

Shake hands, sportsmanship, represent your schools well, shirts in/pants up - let's go......

As was said previously, they're just two or four of the 20+ players and they're not to going to inform their teammates anyhow......(except Juulie's) ;)

I don't even want to discuss "speaking captains."

Yeah, speaking captains seems to be the norm here. I'll do it when I'm told I need to, and until then I'll just smile and nod as the U.

I'll talk to anyone, anytime, but I do get the captains' numbers and circle them in the book. One day I may need them. I also notify them that I'm about to toss the ball up.

Back to the OP, NCAA women had some great video bulletins on the spin move last season. The key, according to them and what I have adopted is finding the pivot foot when the player gathers the ball. I'm not sure if last year's videos are around anywhere, but they were great.


As far as pregames go, mine is, "Sportsmanship is the priority of the state and NFHS. You are the captains and coaches, we expect you to be role models for the rest of the people in attendance. Represent your school well. Have fun tonight". A little wordy, but pretty short.

On the womens side, we have some this year dealing with spin moves. The main thing is control of the ball and then determining the pivot. Every spin move is not a travel.

I assume everyone at the captains meeting is a captain so I don't delineate...

"Captains, make sure white talks to white, black talks to black. (that takes care of the sportsmanship)

Coaches, are you're players legally and properly equipped? (I've yet to have one say no but takes care of the legalese).

Good luck."

State Mandates ???
 

The National High School Federation and your state association require officials to enforce sportsmanship rules. High school athletics emphasize positive values. All of us have worked hard to create a sense of teamwork, respect, responsibility and perspective. We remind you that we expect good behavior and will quickly penalize misconduct. We encourage and appreciate your help. Let the competition reflect mutual respect among participants and officials. Coaches please certify that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according the NFHS rules. Good luck and have a great contest! (New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association, Kentucky High School Athletic Association)

"PIAA requires all registered sports' officials to enforce the sportsmanship rules for coaches and contestants. Actions meant to demean opposing players, team, spectators and officials are not in the highest ideals of interscholastic education and will not be tolerated. Let today's contest reflect mutual respect. Coaches please certify to the umpire that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules. Good luck in today's contest." (Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association)

To captains: The FHSAA requires officials to enforce all rules regarding unsportsmanlike conduct by players and coaches. Violators will be ejected. It is strongly suggested that you remind your teammates and coaches
of this policy. Additionally, this is a simple reminder that jewelry is not allowed, and jerseys must be tucked in during play if they are designed to be worn in. To coaches: Coaches, do you certify that your players are properly equipped and will demonstrate sportsmanlike behavior during today’s contest? (Florida High School Activities Association)

Where
 

Any idea where one could get a copy of these video bulletins? Sounds like a great learning tool.:)

Just 95% of them. :D

You did say...
 

;)

As a coach, I'm curious what you're calling a "spin move." Seems you're referring to a back-to-the-basket post move, so I'm guessing you are talking about a "drop step" move? A "spin move" to me would be a move executed while dribbling, either to attack the basket, or in mid court against tight pressure defense.

In the case of a "drop step," I'd guess it probably is frequently actually a travel, particularly with the benefit of rewind, and slow motion.

Break it down- post player A with the ball and back to basket at the block. Pivot foot is foot furthest from the endline. Player A lifts foot closest to endline and steps outside of defenders foot closest to baseline, player A plants this foot, then pivots on it. For this to be a legal move, the pivot foot (foot furthest from endline) cannot return to the floor before the ball leaves shooters hand, correct? But the way we teach it, and the way we watch this move executed, the original pivot foot does come back in contact with the floor, the shooter then jumps off two feet to lay in or dunk the ball. I do believe that would be traveling. But I'm no expert:D

For this to be a legal move, the post player on the block (back to basket) would have to catch the ball with a hop, landing on two feet simultaneously (no pivot foot established yet), then forward pivot on the foot closest to the baseline (spin toward baseline) without first stepping or otherwise lifting this foot, then after the forward pivot, put weight on the foot that was originally furthest from endline but is now closest to the baseline then jump, and release the ball before landing.

And if you can follow that description, you are a mind reading, genius, savant, psychic, who can see the indescribable, and realize what can't be described, with both arms and your brain tied behind your back. :rolleyes: