Should there have been a whistle?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Personally, I don't like hugging the sidelines. I like working the floor as the C and T, if I cannot see between two players, I move to where I can, and if that means stepping on the floor more thats what I do.

I remember someone mentioning to me. A basketball official should have a boxing referee mentality. Always working to see in between the two boxers/players.

I concur but I've also been told (by whom I don't recall) that I move too much, so I assume there is a happy medium.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I really appreciate you putting these plays out for critique. I can tell you appreciate the feedback, but I appreciate getting to look at the play and see how everyone else's thoughts compare to mine. Great stuff!

Well good. I like to hear that. I think it is great that I can get honest feedback from guys who don't know anything about me. It seems to be a more pure and unaltered opinion, and I like it. I am also happy to hear that you learn something from my gaffes and blunders as well.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I concur but I've also been told (by whom I don't recall) that I move too much, so I assume there is a happy medium.

As it regards moving, I've heard advice similar to what you have. We can get "happy feet." But that's not a reason not to get the right angle on a play.

Best advice I've heard: Seeing the play is like taking a great photo. The first key to taking a photo is to have the right angle on the shot. That means that as the play starts to develop you have to quickly get to a spot that gives you the angle. Many of us want to do that - and we move.

But the second part of a great photo is to be still when you "take the shot". If you're moving to get a good photo, but then snap the shot when you're moving, what do you get? Blurs. If you get your angle, you then need to "freeze" and watch the play. That gives you an opportunity to see the play develop without any 'distortion' or 'blur'.

It has been great advice for me. It takes some anticipation of where the play is going to be, which direction it is going to head, etc. I will take a quick step up, down, forward, back, etc. when the play is getting started to get where I can have the best view. But then, unless something very unexpected happens, I try to stay still and let the play develop.

Now, sometimes that won't work and it's not a hard-and-fast rule, but trying to get the angle early, then stopping while the play actually happens, works well for me.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

As it regards moving, I've heard advice similar to what you have. We can get "happy feet." But that's not a reason not to get the right angle on a play.

Best advice I've heard: Seeing the play is like taking a great photo. The first key to taking a photo is to have the right angle on the shot. That means that as the play starts to develop you have to quickly get to a spot that gives you the angle. Many of us want to do that - and we move.

But the second part of a great photo is to be still when you "take the shot". If you're moving to get a good photo, but then snap the shot when you're moving, what do you get? Blurs. If you get your angle, you then need to "freeze" and watch the play. That gives you an opportunity to see the play develop without any 'distortion' or 'blur'.

It has been great advice for me. It takes some anticipation of where the play is going to be, which direction it is going to head, etc. I will take a quick step up, down, forward, back, etc. when the play is getting started to get where I can have the best view. But then, unless something very unexpected happens, I try to stay still and let the play develop.

Now, sometimes that won't work and it's not a hard-and-fast rule, but trying to get the angle early, then stopping while the play actually happens, works well for me.

I like that, even though I'm the world's worst photographer!

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

1st view = foul charged to A1
2nd -5th view = I don't think A1 displaced B1. If B1 was not looking to draw a foul on A1, I don't think B1 would have been displaced by A1.

No way, dead contact to chest of defender with LGP established. PC all the way!

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

YouTube - No Call2 2010_01_15_01_56_36.avi


I was lead on this play. As it occurred in the game I felt that I would have been guessing on the play had I blown so I held. Two questions....

First, (a) should there have been a whistle on it? (b) and if so should it have been mine? (c) and what should have been called?

Second, what should I have done if anything to get a better view on the play?

a) Yes
b) Lead
c) travel, small hop w/ both feet as soon as he receives the ball (prior to drilling defender who had solid LGP)

[JPaco54]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

As it regards moving, I've heard advice similar to what you have. We can get "happy feet." But that's not a reason not to get the right angle on a play.

Best advice I've heard: Seeing the play is like taking a great photo. The first key to taking a photo is to have the right angle on the shot. That means that as the play starts to develop you have to quickly get to a spot that gives you the angle. Many of us want to do that - and we move.

But the second part of a great photo is to be still when you "take the shot". If you're moving to get a good photo, but then snap the shot when you're moving, what do you get? Blurs. If you get your angle, you then need to "freeze" and watch the play. That gives you an opportunity to see the play develop without any 'distortion' or 'blur'.

It has been great advice for me. It takes some anticipation of where the play is going to be, which direction it is going to head, etc. I will take a quick step up, down, forward, back, etc. when the play is getting started to get where I can have the best view. But then, unless something very unexpected happens, I try to stay still and let the play develop.

Now, sometimes that won't work and it's not a hard-and-fast rule, but trying to get the angle early, then stopping while the play actually happens, works well for me.

Thanks but help me out on this one...in two man, transition when these kids get ahead of me and I am the new L, there is no way I am going to beat them down the court, so what I have been doing, is slowing and stopping around the extended Free throw line and watch the play, then eventually moving down beyond the end line. I realized it is difficult to see the action while moving and although I am not in my proper place I can see the play and then move into place. Any suggetions?

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I really appreciate you putting these plays out for critique. I can tell you appreciate the feedback, but I appreciate getting to look at the play and see how everyone else's thoughts compare to mine. Great stuff!

Agree,
These plays are kind of like a mini-camp, I first look at these and in my mind decide what I would call. I appreciate all the deep insight, even differing views are helpful to "see" where people are looking.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

Thanks but help me out on this one...in two man, transition when these kids get ahead of me and I am the new L, there is no way I am going to beat them down the court, so what I have been doing, is slowing and stopping around the extended Free throw line and watch the play, then eventually moving down beyond the end line. I realized it is difficult to see the action while moving and although I am not in my proper place I can see the play and then move into place. Any suggetions?

Two-man is tough, and there are going to be times when you get beat. I have done the same as you - slow down and let the play go to the basket, then bust it down to the endline after the play (obviously if there's no call).

I think the mechanics are, for the most part, very good and if you follow them you will usually be in a good position to call the game. However, my general thought is as every play develops: go where you need to go to see the play, even if it's not "by the book."

[JPaco54]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Two-man is tough, and there are going to be times when you get beat. I have done the same as you - slow down and let the play go to the basket, then bust it down to the endline after the play (obviously if there's no call).

I think the mechanics are, for the most part, very good and if you follow them you will usually be in a good position to call the game. However, my general thought is as every play develops: go where you need to go to see the play, even if it's not "by the book."

Thanks!

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, A1 didn't displace B1; he just knocked him flat on his azz instead.

And what's wrong with B1 trying to draw a foul? Don't coaches teach their players how to take a charge? You can't penalize the defender for playing legal defense.

And what's wrong with B1 trying to draw a foul? That depends on how you "try to draw a foul". Flopping is "trying to draw a foul". After watching this play a couple of times, I think B1 exagerrated the contact. Certainly there was contact but I didn't see A1 go through B1.

I adjusted this one:
Don't coaches teach their players how to take a charge whether the contact was sufficient for a charge or not? (trying to draw a foul)

Surely your not taking the stance of "if the coaches teach it, it is OK".

You can't penalize the defender for playing legal defense. I agree.

[Adam]

And just because the player doesn't do everything within his power to stay upright doesn't mean he flopped. If I don't know for sure that the player could have stayed upright, then I'm going to assume he was knocked down.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, I can see the player curling into the center. Know what I can't see though? Any of the 3 officials moving to get a better look at the play. Everybody's standing still.

Sometimes all it takes is one little step to get yourself into position to see a play.

Watch Burr sometime. From the lead, he'll step onto the court if he's got room to get a better look at a play in the paint.

Agreed. I was not trying to comment on the actual officials in this play, just a general point on curl plays. The C should definitely have moved to get an angle as soon as he saw the post curl into the key. The L could have moved out a step or two for a better angle also.

Bottom line, if there is a missed call in one of my games, "we" missed it - even if it was in one of my parner's PCA's.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And just because the player doesn't do everything within his power to stay upright doesn't mean he flopped. If I don't know for sure that the player could have stayed upright, then I'm going to assume he was knocked down.

I think requiring players to "take a good shot" leads to a lot of no calls where fouls are more appropriate. In other words, I think you're absolutely right.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Watch Burr sometime. From the lead, he'll step onto the court if he's got room to get a better look at a play in the paint.

Tell me you're kidding and not actually condoning this as a useful movement or part of the mechanics are you?