overtun a call, fumble
 

honest mistake but it was in my area, not really bad peep though. But I saw it clearly and it was when a player lost the ball and then picked up up and fumbled it. Partner called a double dribble. Anyone for stepping in and overturning? Not a close game. Or just talk about it during a stop. I'm thinking in a close game if this happens, do I want to go over and overturn the call or just let it go.

Let it go and assume he saw something you missed, assuming it's in his area and not yours. This isn't a play that needs to be chased down across the court.

If it clearly is not a violation for the reason you stated, I can live with you speaking up. If it is one of those judgment things, I might let it go and we will talk about it in the locker room. It would depend how much in my area the play was and how bad a call I felt it was. I have only gone to an official about a non-out of bound violation in my career and it was during a summer league game.

Peace

I see I missed that it was in your area. I don't have a big problem with this. I actually went to a newer official this year to correct a call, and I hate that I did it.

A1 with a spot throw-in on her front court end line. She launches it deep into the backcourt where A2 retrieves it. I'm lead, and partner (2 person) calls BC violation. I hesitate for a second, but end up hitting my whistle. I run over to her and we talk for a second before she agrees to go IW and give the ball back to A.

This past weekend, I was working with a guy in his 8th game and I saw a totally clean blocked shot, I mean no contact whatsoever, and lo and behold he comes in with a whistle and a fist up. It was obvious to everyone that there was no foul, so before he reported, I called him over to the side and told him what I had seen, and asked him to be honest, "was there any contact?" He was honest; I indicated "Inadvertant whistle" and we played the ball fromt the point of interuption. I hated "overuling" him, but I think it added to our credibility as a team.

Really? If I was a coach I'd be looking to you to overrule any call your partner made that I didn't like.

Credibility for who? Made you feel all puffed up. What about your partner? What about the coaches? Now coaches will expecting everything to be subject to correction. Maybe overrule on a violation but not a foul. Talk to your partner later about it.

Right, and the difference is that one involves incorrectly applying a rule (which is fixable), and the other involves mistaken judgment (which isn't).

Got to step in with this one....If you don't correct this VERY basic rule...then you look bad, as well....got to correct it...good call.....

I agree, which is why I did it. If the ball had landed in the FC first and there was any doubt about team control in the FC, I would have let it go.

She and I talked about it later, and said she wasn't sure at the time but had blown her whistle hoping I'd correct her if she was wrong. I honestly wasn't sure how to answer that one at the time.

So we're opening up "differences of opinions" in judgement calls all night long? Can instant replay be far behind? We've all missed judgement calls but unless you want to get into reviewing all calls/non-calls, live with what your partner calls. With rules application we need to "get it right" and by the book states that we can't set aside rules so I'm all in favor of getting together to "get it right". But with judgement who's to say where we draw the line? Yes, some "judgements" are better than others and some are waaay less than others - live with it! If your partner's comfortable in explaining to the coach why he had a whistle, let him gain the experience, if not, rotate him out away and move on!

While I agree, it's not always as easy as you seem to make it.

Suppose your partner calls a personal foul, and you see that there's no contact at all. Do you go in becuase it's a rules issue or leave it because it's a judgment issue?

On the two plays presented here ("double dribble" and "BC"), I agree that they can often and should often be corrected, based on the information presented. But, it's not clear to me where (or at least how to explain where) to draw the line.

Bob hits it on the head (again) here. It's a tough line to find, let alone walk. Personally, I'd rather feel uncomfortable doing what I did than feel good about it; even though at the time (and even now) I felt it needed done.

I hate to pile on but imo you not only destroyed your credibility as a team but you also opened a Pandora's Box for coaches to question any/all of your team's judgment calls.

I would as well.
 

All things being equal, I'm doing exactly the same thing.

what I left out of my OP was that the "non foul" block was in my PCA, much closer to me than my partner.

Doesn't matter (on this kind of call).

changes nothing... You were way out of line to take the action you did. In my game, I line the players up, we shoot the free throws and I show support of my partner. In the locker room at half or after the game, is when I rip my partner's a$$ for calling a blocked shot foul in my primary. But on the floor it is nothing but a show of support for him.

We all have brain laspses and kick calls, sometimes out of our primary. If you were to do this to me resulting in embarassing me (or the other member of our crew if three person) count on me changing the call right back to the original call and embarassing you.

Yep, and I think the worst part (or equally bad) of this is that you've now taught a new official that it's ok to overrule his partner if he sees something different.

Also keep in mind that he hadn't yet reported the foul; I stopped him on his way to report and we discussed what we had. If he had even hinted at seeing any body contact (which from my angle would have been impossible) we'd have stuck with his call. Believe me I don't think overulling him helps him or me, but when it was so obvious to everyone that there was no contact, I'd rather get it right. (There was easily a foot or two between the shot blocker and the shooter; that's how obvious it was).

Still doesn't matter.

We had an "overrule" last night in our Boys V game.

I was the R in a 3 person crew.

Frontcourt action with the ball being passed around by Team A. Team B player tipped the ball, on a pass, and a Team A player touched the ball before it went into backcourt.

As the players were hustling to get the loose ball in backcourt...a Team A player pushed a Team B player. Tweet...my partner, that was Trail, called a foul on the Team A player. We were in the bonus...so my partner indicated that a Team B player would be shooting a bonus FT.

Is there anything there for me to overturn?

Well, you haven't had a misapplication of a rule 'yet' so there isn't anything to overturn. It does appear you needed to step in to prevent a misapplication of a rule, though.

Did you?

You could rule it incidental contact. :D

Seriously, good job.

Twice this year I've had to remind my partners we are shooting when an offensive player fouled on the rebounding action.
Once I had to remind them that we don't go POI with a Technical foul.

...so you spotted the team control foul also. Good job to you.

Also, good...no team control on a try, therefore you would shoot the FT(s) on a rebound foul. (if in the bonus)

And those pesky college officials(or college fans)...POI on the Technical...always wanting to bring their game to the H.S. level. ;)

Stopping your partner -- now you just threw both of you under the bus.

Your partner calls a foul and unless there's a violation that precedes the foul he wouldn't see (player travels before the foul) there's nothing for you to communicate. Period.

And it doesn't matter whose PCA it's in. An official is not restricted, by rule, from calling a foul anywhere on the court. Not that it's good practice, but you sure can't overrule him.

My Opinion ...
 

It was the great philosopher Chevy Chase who stated in the movie "Fletch Lives!" : It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong, I am NOT a big man!"

Your partner may have been wrong with his call, you were DEF. wrong in your handling the situation. Just because he hadn't "reported" the fould, doesn't mean he had not "called" the foul. I am assuming his fist was up, and if he was on the ball had identified the shooter. Own the mistake and move on. Let your partner report the call and deal with those calls.
We have ALL made those. The last one I had there was about 2' between the shooter and the defender while I was in "C". Shooter double clutches and I blow my whistle. The coach asked me what I saw and I told him "Coach, I'm sure I have made worse calls than that one, but can't recall one off the top of my head. My bad, I'll get it right next time". Not something you want to say often, but helped the situation. And you can be DANG sure I was much more focused/patient the rest of the game!