Foul late in the game
 

YouTube - Foul or no foul 2010_01_14_01_58_43.avi

There are some 30 seconds left in the game with White down by 2 with the ball (which is really irrelevant but I want to give you the setting). Black knocks the ball loose and as players begin to scramble it is evident black will get the ball, when out of the corner of my eye I see a jersey get pulled on. My whistle went off (I'm in C on table side at the bottom of the screen in the video) and I ran to the the kid that fouled (#3) as not to see his number and assure everyone knew who fouled.

The black coach wasn't too happy with the situation, but I assured him it would show up on film (and was ever so grateful when I got home and saw that it had, even if it wasn't as visible as I had thought).

So my question to you guys/gals is this.....

In your opinion knowing that I saw play from my peripheral was it a play that I should have gotten, or should I have passed on it?

We ended up NOT administering the play correctly, as I was sure that black had gained possession of the ball when I called the foul, however on film it is evident that they hadn't and thus we should have been shooting fts. My follow-up question is to seek your council on how I could have (if at all) been more observant in realizing that black had yet to get to the ball and thus administering it correctly?

That's pretty evident...and definitely a big jersey grab. It may not have impacted White's ability to get the ball, but definitely could have altered his ability to defend the break. Could even make the argument an intentional is appropriate here. Not sure I'd say that, but I'm sure some will.

As far as possession vs. no possession, the best you can do if you aren't sure is to get together with your partners and talk about it. If you aren't sure there was possession, I'd rule no possession in this instance.

Any postgame comments from your partners about it?

The call had to be made. Intentional foul imo. Not a basketball play.

Intentional foul IMHO

at least you called a foul and no you should not have passed on it.
is there another deck of stands? above where it says CottonWood. looks like a nice gym.

No my partners didn't see the play at all. We chatted about it but they just went off what I told them.

Yes and I yes it is a nicer gym to work in.

Intentional Foul, and I can't help but think this gets caught in three man, where in MA with two man it may or may not be seen. You can only do what you can for possession judgement since you can't use video.

I've got intentional foul.

"Let no man pull you low enough to hate him." (Martin Luther King Jr.)
 

Thanks for reminding me. Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."
(Martin Luther King Jr.)

Put Me Down For An ...
 

Intentional foul.

Good call. Intentional here. Lead didn't see it. Makes me wonder how much I miss.

Your positioning, your mechanics, and your hustle on this play all look great. :)

I spent some time reflecting upon jersey holds a few years ago and concluded that it is best to deem them intentional fouls as a past NFHS POE advocated.

These are non-basketball plays and should be penalized severely.

Great work catching the action. I can understand how the old Trail didn't see it because he would shift to looking at the location of the loose ball, but I believe that the old Lead should have also been able to see this, IF he knew that the ball had been knocked loose and shifted his eyes up the court. However, if he was focused in his PCA still thinking that the white team had the ball, then he may not observe it.

Do you know who else had a perfect view of the play? -- the Head Coach for white standing just to your right.

Overall, nice work. I would only suggest that you spend some time thinking about whether to call intentional personal fouls on plays such as this.

Clark,
Good call and good spontaneous spot!! I would have called an intentional foul. I love catching dirty play in basketball, I loathe dirty players!! (this wasn't really dirty, but definitely not a basketball play) Thanks for posting these plays on utube, it is really nice when everyone sees the same thing and then can comment appropriatley.

Make that Martin Luther KING:eek:

good catch

Ask your partners whether black had the ball at the time your whistle blew. (Yes, I know that's not the same as the time of the foul, but it can give some guidance.)

I had a similar foul recently in transition as the C. That time it was a defender reaching up and grabbing a jersey. I came across like you did to sell it. It's a good reminder about why a C needs to officiate strong in transition since the C may have the only really good angle on a lot of things.

I doubt your foul would've ever been caught in 2-person.

Clark, I think you did a good job getting a whistle on that play. Because the pull happened so quickly I probably would have done the same as you did with just a personal foul. After watching the replay 5 times, I can see where the intentional is probably warranted.

No one has brought this up yet, does anyone beleive White #32 traveled (before the drive where he lost the ball???:confused:

Yes.

Wait, what?
 

Did you call an intentional, common or team-control foul?

Da Official and Jesse James, good question as I was going to ask that also. It seems he did travel although it was a very small one which gave him an advantage at least until the ball was stolen.

I've got a travel, too.

Obviously he called a team control foul as they didn't shoot free throws, and the point of the discussion was how to determine, in this scenario, whether team control existed.

Lol...yea I saw that. Maybe I should have edited that out! ;)

Thanks
 

Thanks. I appreciate all your insight. At the time an intentional foul didn't even cross my mind. I was worried about selling the subtle pull on the shirt when I knew it was away from the ball. Guess I need to adjust my philosophies still!

Thanks

Just something to think about.....if you're ever so grateful that the foul showed up on film, aren't you kind of putting yourself out on a limb by telling the coach essentially to look at the film? You might want to think about getting away from telling coaches to go look at the film. IMO it seems confrontational and if you do happen to boot the call from what THEY see on film, you'll lose credibility with that coach in the future. I just think its a risky thing to say to a coach.

I'll say this...if, as you say, you saw part of it peripherally, it happened fast enough in live action that I can see it being tough to nail this as intentional.

It's always easy to call those from behind the video screen. :D

Good call. Had to be gotten. Great video btw. We had a site last year that we could log on and see our game tape. It was a great tool to get better. It isn't up and working for us this year. :(

I was going to bring this up but you beat me to it. I watched it 3 times and he did travel, but having to look 3 times on tape would have been hard to catch on the spot.

I would have came up with a personal foul also but intentional would have been in my mind though.