And he probably still thinks I don't know the rule
 

BJV last night, partner calls a shooting foul under the basket. Shooter was bent over and the actual contact was probably about 18 inches off the floor. IAABO has the calling official go opposite, so I was standing by the coach as we're shooting free throws (first half). He starts questioning why we're shooting, and my partner simply says he'd started shooting. "It was a little close to the ground for that."

Partner went over to C, and coach started asking me. "Coach, it doesn't matter, as long as he'd started the shooting motion." We went on for a few seconds and I told him to drop it. Then he walked away and mumbled something under his breath and that was the last I heard of it.

Do coaches really know the rules?
 

Snaqwells,

You do bring up an interesting point. Why do coaches question officials if they really have no understanding of the rules?

It's on the first page of the coaching manual.

Maybe it's a good thing I've never seen the coaching manual then LMAO :):D

I get a lot of crap over this and I know exactly why:

Too many officials say "on the floor" when they really should be granting free throws.

I don't. I can't help it those other officials and the coaches don't know the rules.

Arrogance.

Peace

It's okay. I had a coach in a JV tourney on Saturday tell me that when a player dives on the floor to secure a loose ball, it's a traveling violation if he slides at all after securing the ball. The sad thing is that this was a varsity coach who was coaching his JV team. His head really started spinning when I told him that the player can be rolling as well as long as he is still sliding and his momentum is still carrying him.

I've posted about this before when you brought this up, but it reminds me. I have a partner that I'm friends with that I work with frequently, and he does a great job. BUT, this is the one thing that he consistently calls incorrectly IMO. I don't want to bring it up and seem like a know it all, so I don't say anything. We had a couple of them happen the other night where the player being fouled was clearly in the shooting motion (Caught a bounce pass and was gathering with both hands and starting up) and he waved the shot off.

If they have a rules question, they could ask the table.

I don't have a full understanding of the rules either, though I am trying to learn all I can.

They'd be better of talking to the wall. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...s/banghead.gif

+1.

I see this waaaaaay too often. Kid starts the upward motion, arms up, on his toes but hasn't cleared the ground yet and it gets called on the floor. Huh?

First of all, I want to be clear, the VAST MAJORITY of the time when a typical coach questions a typical call, the COACH IS WRONG!!! (JRut, sometimes it may be arrogance, but at other times it is ignorance).

But, this particular situation, as Rich points out, creates HUGE problems for us. Over the past three days alone, I have heard "on the floor" describe fouls in which the shooter had clearly begun his/her shooting motion.

Perhaps making this a POE for 2010-11 may be in order.

Probably for the same reason that you do.

Most Hyphens in a Post
 

+1

All pregames for which I'm R now include the request to banish the term "on the floor", as well as the the all-too-cool non-Fed point-to-the-floor gesture. Replacing that verbage with the more accurate "No shot!", if that's the case.
Has worked well with all partners thus far this year.

Shrug. I do not use the term "on the floor" but I will point to the spot if the foul is before the shooting motion has begun.

I will also (I know I shouldn't have to do this) hold my whistle just a bit longer in these situations -- I may have decided that there is a foul, but whistling it as the shooter is actually going up sells it that way just a bit better. Since I'm always working on having a good patient whistle, this happens a lot anyway -- it's usually non-regular partners or the prelim game officials that I see whistle quickly and call it "on the floor".

I've heard that "there's no such thing as a dumb question."

Your question is obviously the exception that proves the rule.

Couldn't agree more. This is actually going to be part of my pregame with my regular high school crew tomorrow night. I'm guilty of it at times as well and we as officials need to change this.

Oddly, it actually came up during one of our association meetings in November, so most of our members are aware of the problem. I may have seen it used only once or twice this year by officials. Twice I've had partners' shooting fouls get questioned by the coach of the fouling team.

Like Rich, my whistle is typically late enough that it doesn't get questioned unless the coach is in a position to have a good view of it.

Great idea, I'm going to include this in my pregame from now on.