Here's one for the newbies
 

This happened in my game last night.

A1 to shoot first of a 1 and 1. B1 lines up with his foot on the lane line. Partner extends arm out and makes fist to indicate a delayed violation. A1 then shoots an air ball with the ball going directly OOB. What's the proper call?

Would there be a different call if the shot was the first of a two shot foul?

Well then, that's different! Drive on! My bad.

My answer was going to be.....

6-4-5(c) An alternating possession throw-in shall result when:
(c) Simultaneous floor or free-throw violations occur.

...it still is even though a newbie with 1,700+ posts gave us the answer.

Mark: Maybe you could set some parameters as to who qualifies as a newbie the next time you post one of your "newbies only" situations. Gee Welpe, give us a chance. Us newbies have a difficult enough time following the complicated sitchs that are posted and debated by you experienced vets. Mark is trying to help us out here to see if we're actually learning something about the rules and how to properly apply them in a game sitch.

Though I am honored that you consider me a veteran, of my 1700+ posts, almost all of them, prior to this basketball season were in the baseball, football and softball forums.

You actually have been officiating basketball for longer than I have. Despite that fact, I decided to delete my original post (before you responded). Sorry for any inconvenience I might've caused.

Missed the follow-up question....you shoot the 2nd FT.
Caseplay 6.4.3 Situation B.

This was my bad, as I "assumed" Welpe was a basketball vet, and this apparently is not the case.

So, welcome Newbie! ;)

I'm assuming Welpe is a spy from the Football forum until I get proof otherwise.

If I am A1 I am saying that "B1 disconcerted me", thus the shooter violation should be ignored.:D

And I am laughing at you. :)

What would you like produced as proof? :cool:

I'll know it when I see it. :)

You're taking obscurity lessons from my wife I see.

Sorry Welpe....my bad.

Air balling a free throw is a violation, what is the signal? I always see the Officials do the finger pointed in the air twirl.

Isn't a Mechanic for This One
 

Just raise the open hand, air up the whistle, point to the spot of the violation (I just point towards the rim), then point to the spot for the throw-in.
Everyone knows it missed the rim.
The inverted toilet swirl, until it becomes approved, is ridiculous. Probably will be ridiculous if it does become approved.

It is approved. In football it means "one untimed down." ;)

The answer is in NFHS Rule 9-1 Penalties 3 and 4b. You go to the arrow and do not shoot the second shot in 1-and-1.

If shooting 2 or three, that FT is dead and you would go to the next FT.

No worries, I understand why you thought that. :)

How's this work for you?

I did a girl's 8th grade game last night that took 2 hours. We called 16 fouls in the first quarter and who knows how many held balls. The first half ended at 7 PM and I wasn't back in my car until 8:15. The score was tied at the end of the half and at the end of the game, the visitor's were up by 25 points.

Oh yeah my scheduled partner was a no-show but thankfully, somebody working at the school had gone through the official's training and had a shirt.

Believe me yet? ;)

LOL, you seem to have been sufficiently hazed.

You're either:

a) Making all this stuff up, or
b) Having Padgett ghost write your material

If Padgett were ghostwriting this, he would've said 8th Grade Girl's "Competitive" game.... :)

I'm certainly not making it up either, my legs are feeling it today.

Crap...didn't read the question close enough and completely missed that it was a 1-and-1. Made the same mistake on this year's written test for my board (not reading the question closely enough), and it cost me....missed the mandatory minimum grade required to move to the next steps in the HS certification process, floor evaluations and floor test.
Here if you are trying to make the board, you don't pass written test, you do not qualify for a floor evaluations or the floor test. So your year, as far as having a chance to continue on and move up a level, comes to a screeching halt. You have to start over again from the beginning next season.
Don't get me wrong, the year is not a total waste. It gives you another season to continue to work on your mechanics at the JV level (certified board guys do not work JV here). We have guys who have passed the written test to either not make it the floor test (due to low evaluation scores) or make it to the floor test and flunk it. Same deal...they have to go back to the beginning next season.
Got 10 wrong, had to get no more than 7 wrong, and there were at least3 I would have gotten correct if I had read the question more closely....lesson learned...the hard way.
Mark, keep the newbie only questions coming when you can.

clear the lane for the 2nd throw and then go with the AP arrow ?

No, if a second free throw followed (i.e. not a bonus situation) you'd just move to the second free throw and continue from there. Is that what you are asking?

let me break down my reasoning, might be less confusing . A1 and B1 both violating make it an AP arrow situation.
if another free throw(or 2) was coming ,they are administered first and then you still have to go to the AP arrow after the FT(s) . thus clearing the lane as there will be no rebounding anyway .
if A1 were to miss the rim again, then ball to B for a throw in ,no Ap situation . I definitely think these might be the correct answers !:)

6.4.3 Situation A
B1, in a marked lane space, enters the lane prematurely. The administering official properly signals the violation and A1 attempts the free throw. However, A1's attempt doese not enter the basket or touch the ring.

RULING: The violations by B1 and A1 constitute a simultaneous free-throw violation. Unless another free throw follows, play resumes with an alternating-possession throw-in from a designated spot outside the end line.

so it doesn't matter if more ft's follow, it's still going to the ap arrow after that ? if so then why not clear the lane of everybody but A1? and if A1 misses the rim again, ball to B ?

While it's not exactly a POI situation, that's basically how I think of it. You have a simultaneous violation which ends the current free throw attempt. You then have to go to the "next" thing. If there's another free throw, that's next. If there's not another free throw, you obviously have to get the game started with a throw in. The only way to determine who is entitled to the throw in is to go to the arrow.

One of the differences from a true POI situation is that the simultaneous violations could occur while the shooting team is in control of the ball, but that doesn't matter.

Where did you get that? It explicitly does matter if more FTs follow. Just shoot the next free throw with everyone on the lane and play on.

Note that it says "unless another freethrow follows...."

I'm not fully understanding the whole POI thing yet ,hopefully another thread may help. but right now i want to know about the additional FT . After that are we still going with the AP arrow ? and if so ;why have 6 guys in marked lane spaces ?
And next; if the thrower A1 violates again( miss the rim, foot in the lane etc..) that violation negates the AP arrow and ball to B ?

If there is another free throw, we ARE NOT going to the A/P arrow. We are just going to resume play with the next free throw.

We only go to the arrow if there is NOT another free throw.

O K , I did note the "unless " but wasn't sure how to interpret it , the easiest way might have been best ! some of you guys were obviously trying to tell me, thanks

Ok, some examples...
 

B1, in a marked lane space, enters the lane prematurely. The administering official properly signals the violation and A1 attempts (a) the first free throw of a 1&1 (b) the 1st free throw of a 2 shot foul (c) the 2nd free throw of a 2 shot foul. However, in all situations, A1's attempt does not enter the basket or touch the ring.

Rulings:

Situation A: Cancel the attempt and resume play with the AP.

Situation B: Cancel the attempt and administer the 2nd free throw. Play will resume from here. I.e. if good, throw-in for Team B; on a miss Team A/B may get the rebound, etc.

Situation C: Cancel the attempt and resume play with the AP.

Does this help?

Yes, I finally got it ! Thanks. <><