The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   In need of a trick (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56381-need-trick.html)

doubleringer Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:08am

In need of a trick
 
I'm looking for a trick to help me out. I work about a half varsity, half small college basketball. A couple of times a year I find myself dropping the number of a player committing the foul. I did it the other night in a blow out game (the only person in the gym that knows I dropped it was me and maybe the kid that got charged with the foul, but he didn't say anything). I need a trick to help me make sure I don't lose numbers again. Anyone got anythinig useful? I'm not looking for suggestions on what to do when it happens, I know I can go to my partners, players (women's college encourages this) and the bench officials. I'm just looking for something I can do in my head to make sure I quit dropping numbers.

LSams Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:11am

Slow down. Stay with the play a couple more seconds before running off to the table. Point out your shooter, and then take your eyes back to the player that committed the foul -- get the number and then go to the table.

FrankHtown Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:14am

I find doing a preliminary verbal and signal at the spot e.g. "Red 23, hold, White ball, sideline spot" helps me remember who the foul is on, because it's stuck in my mind now. Just repeat the number to the scorer.

Also, if you're lucky, your partner(s) may hear what you said out loud also, and can help if you do forget.

bas2456 Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankHtown (Post 650069)
I find doing a preliminary verbal and signal at the spot e.g. "Red 23, hold, White ball, sideline spot" helps me remember who the foul is on, because it's stuck in my mind now. Just repeat the number to the scorer.

Also, if you're lucky, your partner(s) may hear what you said out loud also, and can help if you do forget.

That's something I'll start doing. It'll help me slow down too.

fullor30 Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubleringer (Post 650064)
I'm looking for a trick to help me out. I work about a half varsity, half small college basketball. A couple of times a year I find myself dropping the number of a player committing the foul. I did it the other night in a blow out game (the only person in the gym that knows I dropped it was me and maybe the kid that got charged with the foul, but he didn't say anything). I need a trick to help me make sure I don't lose numbers again. Anyone got anythinig useful? I'm not looking for suggestions on what to do when it happens, I know I can go to my partners, players (women's college encourages this) and the bench officials. I'm just looking for something I can do in my head to make sure I quit dropping numbers.

I can't shake it myself. For some reason, I tend to focus on my shooter and drop the fouler. Slowing down seems to be the key.

Along that line, If I give up a foul on a double whistle and point to calling partner, on occasion partner will point back at me to take it, by that time, I've purged everything. Hasn't happened lately, but when it does, I don't like to look stoopid at table.

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 650085)
I can't shake it myself. For some reason, I tend to focus on my shooter and drop the fouler. Slowing down seems to be the key.

Along that line, If I give up a foul on a double whistle and point to calling partner, on occasion partner will point back at me to take it, by that time, I've purged everything. Hasn't happened lately, but when it does, I don't like to look stoopid at table.

Especially in SE Washington.:D

Vinski Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:13pm

I’ve had this problem as well at times. I find that verbalizing the color and number of the fouler, like others have said, really helps. Take an extra couple of seconds to replay exactly what happened in your head before going to the table to report. I’m currently trying to make this a habit. For some reason, though, I have a tough time slowing down. But it definitly helps when I do it.

fullor30 Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 650090)
Especially in SE Washington.:D



I was going to throw in an eagles have landed reference!

doubleringer Mon Jan 11, 2010 01:41pm

Thanks. All good suggestions. I think you hit it on the head when you say slow down. I work quite a bit and as the season goes on, I get on a bit of autopilot and probably are too quick leaving the play and going to the table. I don't do much for preliminary signals as a Women's memo or something I saw early this season asked us to get away from all of the preliminary signals.

bob jenkins Mon Jan 11, 2010 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubleringer (Post 650144)
I don't do much for preliminary signals as a Women's memo or something I saw early this season asked us to get away from all of the preliminary signals.

There's a difference between "preliminary signals" and "communicating with your partners what you have at the spot."

Juulie Downs Mon Jan 11, 2010 02:13pm

I have started saying the fouler's number and then the foulee's number right after each other as if it were a PIN for the ATM. It helps me keep them both, so that I know I have the right shooter. Say them a couple of times to myself on the way to the table.

dsqrddgd909 Mon Jan 11, 2010 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinski (Post 650096)
I’ve had this problem as well at times. I find that verbalizing the color and number of the fouler, like others have said, really helps. Take an extra couple of seconds to replay exactly what happened in your head before going to the table to report. I’m currently trying to make this a habit. For some reason, though, I have a tough time slowing down. But it definitly helps when I do it.

Good suggestion. I blew one Saturday, Boys F. I think part of it is that on some of these boys the jersey folds over on the number, particularly in front.

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2010 07:49pm

I Hate It When This Happens ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 650085)
If I give up a foul on a double whistle and point to calling partner, on occasion partner will point back at me to take it, by that time, I've purged everything.

Same thing here. I've purged the fouler, and I'm already trying to figure out who the foulee is in case we're shooting free throws.

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2010 07:53pm

It's Tough To Get Old ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs (Post 650165)
I have started saying the fouler's number and then the foulee's number right after each other... It helps me keep them both, so that I know I have the right shooter. Say them a couple of times to myself on the way to the table.

Good for you. I gave up trying to do that many, many years ago after reporting the foulee's number to the table on several occasions. Heck, I have difficulty remembering both numbers on a double foul on the way to the table.

Now if I could just find my keys?

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2010 07:56pm

I Also Hate It When This Happens ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 650193)
I think part of it is that on some of these boys the jersey folds over on the number, particularly in front.

I tend to see this more in girls games. And I hate staring at their chests waiting to catch the number. It makes me feel like "a dirty old man".

chseagle Mon Jan 11, 2010 08:04pm

What happened to the old trick of having the person that fouled raising their hand until the foul is reported?

Loudwhistle Mon Jan 11, 2010 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 650311)
What happened to the old trick of having the person that fouled raising their hand until the foul is reported?

This would require players actually believing they fouled while playing. The way some players react when I call a foul on them you'd think I accused them of being a serial killer or that they watch The Biggest Loser in their spare time!!

Rich Mon Jan 11, 2010 09:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 650311)
What happened to the old trick of having the person that fouled raising their hand until the foul is reported?

It disappeared in the 1970s.

chseagle Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle (Post 650337)
This would require players actually believing they fouled while playing. The way some players react when I call a foul on them you'd think I accused them of being a serial killer or that they watch The Biggest Loser in their spare time!!

Very true, considering I've seen a player foul then look at the reporting official with a deer-in-the-headlights look like they didn't do anything, or try arguing with the official (or the coach argues) that they didn't do anything wrong.

jdw3018 Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 650085)
Along that line, If I give up a foul on a double whistle and point to calling partner, on occasion partner will point back at me to take it, by that time, I've purged everything. Hasn't happened lately, but when it does, I don't like to look stoopid at table.

This is my Achilles heel as well. I can't tell you how many times, after giving up the foul, I instantly found myself hoping my partner didn't give it back as I'd lost the info.

My goal is to continue to grow my game management, and taking in more and more info is part of that for me. I now often can tell you who a partner called a foul on, if that is 3 or 4 on a player, how many of those I've called, etc...except when I give up a foul on a double whistle. Have to continue working on that one...

Adam Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 650338)
It disappeared in the 1970s.

Wasn't it still a rule in the 80's? I remember doing it when I played, but can't remember if it was still a rule or if it was still just part of the tradition.

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 650351)
Wasn't it still a rule in the 80's? I remember doing it when I played, but can't remember if it was still a rule or if it was still just part of the tradition.

I was a junior in the 73-74 season which was that last season where the fouling player had to raise his hand. The 74-75 season ushered in the 'feel good' era in which the rules committee did not want the offending person to 'feel guilty' by raising his hand. I continued to do so as a player. I detested political correctness even then.

Adam Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 650363)
I was a junior in the 73-74 season which was that last season where the fouling player had to raise his hand. The 74-75 season ushered in the 'feel good' era in which the rules committee did not want the offending person to 'feel guilty' by raising his hand. I continued to do so as a player. I detested political correctness even then.

As evidenced by the fact that they clung to half-court girls basketball until 1993, traditions tend to last a while in Iowa.

KJUmp Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 650311)
What happened to the old trick of having the person that fouled raising their hand until the foul is reported?

It hasn't been a rule at the HS level for 35 years.
Rule was rescinded by NFHS prior to the start of the 1974 season.

jdub Tue Jan 12, 2010 09:18am

Hate this so much I pregame it
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 650304)
Same thing here. I've purged the fouler, and I'm already trying to figure out who the foulee is in case we're shooting free throws.

I hate it when this happens, and had it happen a few times, so now I pregame it. I won't "give up" the call by pointing at my partner...we will pregame that someone "takes" it. IE, if the call is in their PCA, they will tap their chest/otherwise signal "I got this." If I think we have something different, we can take that extra second and I can jog over to discuss.

I've found that it helps tremendously, and especially on forgetting who the fouler was. I had the same problem, that I would instantly assume my partner had the call, and forget who the call was on. Bad news when partner did the same!

bob jenkins Tue Jan 12, 2010 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 650342)
This is my Achilles heel as well. I can't tell you how many times, after giving up the foul, I instantly found myself hoping my partner didn't give it back as I'd lost the info.

Don't instantly give it up. Use it as an opportunity to confirm the call. Then, you;ll both have to get the numbers.

jdw3018 Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 650499)
Don't instantly give it up. Use it as an opportunity to confirm the call. Then, you;ll both have to get the numbers.

Good advice. I know what's happening - rather than focusing on the fouler/foulee "through and after" the play, I'm focusing on my partner and letting my focus wander.

Something good to work on tonight...along with a switch back to 2-man mechanics for the first time in three years...

bas2456 Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 650370)
As evidenced by the fact that they clung to half-court girls basketball until 1993, traditions tend to last a while in Iowa.

Halfcourt basketball? Seriously??

dsqrddgd909 Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 650518)
Halfcourt basketball? Seriously??

I know it was still the case in 1978. I dated a girl at college who was all-state in IA in 6-person. In our college intramurals, she had a great offensive game, but definitely struggled on defense.

26 Year Gap Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 650525)
I know it was still the case in 1978. I dated a girl at college who was all-state in IA in 6-person. In our college intramurals, she had a great offensive game, but definitely struggled on defense.

Was she related to Rick Mount?

Adam Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 650518)
Halfcourt basketball? Seriously??

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 650525)
I know it was still the case in 1978. I dated a girl at college who was all-state in IA in 6-person. In our college intramurals, she had a great offensive game, but definitely struggled on defense.

Yeah, as of the late 70's, Iowa schools could choose whether to play basketball as you know it or 6-player. This lasted until the 92-93 season, after which 6 player was no longer an option.

The differences boil down to:
1. Each team had three players in each half court, guards (defenders) and forwards (offense). Crossing the division line was a violation.
2. The ball could only legally be bounced twice during a dribble.
3. Top scorers typically averaged 40-50 points per game due to having fewer players to distribute the scoring.
4. After a score, the old lead would toss the ball to the new lead, who would hand it do the new forward standing in the semi-circle at half court for a throw-in; as he continued to the new lead position.

There were some other minor differences as well, but those are the key points.

In some states, the 6 player system divided the court into three sections rather than two.

26 Year Gap Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 650533)
Yeah, as of the late 70's, Iowa schools could choose whether to play basketball as you know it or 6-player. This lasted until the 92-93 season, after which 6 player was no longer an option.

The differences boil down to:
1. Each team had three players in each half court, guards (defenders) and forwards (offense). Crossing the division line was a violation.
2. The ball could only legally be bounced twice during a dribble.
3. Top scorers typically averaged 40-50 points per game due to having fewer players to distribute the scoring.
4. After a score, the old lead would toss the ball to the new lead, who would hand it do the new forward standing in the semi-circle at half court for a throw-in; as he continued to the new lead position.

There were some other minor differences as well, but those are the key points.

In some states, the 6 player system divided the court into three sections rather than two.

I remember a setup in VT that had 2 rovers, 2 forwards and 2 defenders. It resulted in 4 on 4 at the offensive end.

Vinski Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 650085)

Along that line, If I give up a foul on a double whistle and point to calling partner, on occasion partner will point back at me to take it, by that time, I've purged everything. Hasn't happened lately, but when it does, I don't like to look stoopid at table.

This was also a trouble area in my game as well. However, I now pregame that we always come together on double whistles and tell each other what we have.
This not only eliminated the losing of the number but also identified when we actually did have a different fouler. Like in the situation where there is contact on both sides of the shooter.
We then decide who fouled first. Usually the coming together is no more than a couple of seconds.
It would be something like, “I got 52 on the arm”.
And my partner might say, “Same here”. Or he could end up saying,” I had a push by 12 before that”.
This has really been working well.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1