Wild Throw-in vs. Pressure
 

Rather strange situation happened in a game last year. We were back at the same gym on Friday night and I brought up the play. Three officials, three different views of the same play. Ask a different crew on Saturday and got similar results.

Here is the situation: Team A scores a basket with 0:05 seconds left in the first half. Team A is running a Diamond Fullcourt press. A5 is aggressively defending along the endline. B1 is preparing to inbound the ball. This particular high school gym has very little room beyond the end line (about 3 feet between the end line and a brick wall (there is no restraining line). B1 decides to run the end line. B1 stops, sees a teammate near the division line. B1 attempts to make a baseball pass. As he reaches back to throw the pass, his hand/the ball contacts the wall. The ball goes directly into the hands of A5 who puts the ball into the basket. What, if anything, do you have?

Basket, throw-in violation, reset/redo due to the proximity of the wall???

2 points if his hand hit the wall. Throw-in violation if the ball hit the wall last.

Team A did nuthin' wrong.

It's only a violation if the ball hit the wall and then came onto the court, which is what I think you're saying.

I'd rule the same as you.

It sounds like the ball was still in his hands when it touched the wall...when he pulled it back getting ready to throw it. If so, no violation.

The wall is OOB just like the floor. It wouldn't be a violation if he touched the ball to the floor while it was in his hands....only if a bounce pass hit the floor OOB before going inbounds....the wall would basically be the same.

Camron,
So you are saying that if the ball is in the inbounder's (B1's) hand, when the ball makes contact with the wall, it would not be a violation (similar to the floor)?

I had a play that ended up at the NFHS a few years ago.

Made basket. Team A runs a play -- A1 passes to A2 and the ball glances off the wall on the way to A2. A2 catches the ball, passes to A3, who is fouled.

In a split second, I ruled it was legal since the ball didn't go on the court. The home coach was, shall I say, unhappy and I submitted the play to the state office who passed it right to the NFHS. They agreed it was legal, but left open the chance they'd change their minds in future years. Since I've seen no plays addressing this, I'd still go with this interpretation.

9.2.2 Situation A

I Was Thinking The Same Thing ...
 

9.2.2 SITUATION A: Thrower A1: (a) causes the ball to carom from the wall
behind him/her, or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court; (b) caroms
the ball from the back of the backboard to a player in the court; or (c) throws
the ball against the side or the front face of the backboard, after which it rebounds
into the hands of A2. RULING: Violation in (a) and (b), since the throw touched
an object out of bounds. The throw-in in (c) is legal. The side and front face of
the backboard are inbounds and, in this specific situation, are treated the same
as the floor inbounds.

Not quite. The carom in my game was off the wall to another player out of bounds on a made goal. It's a point not covered. I asked about 20 top officials and it was a 50-50 split in my responses.

Ok, my fault. I see what you are saying now.

7-5-7a
Any player of the team may make a direct throw-in or he/she may pass the ball along the endline to a teammate(s) outside the boundary.

I assume this is what some are basing their argument on?

However,

9.2.2 SITUATION A: Thrower A1: (a) causes the ball to carom from the wall
behind him/her, or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court; (b) caroms the ball from the back of the backboard to a player in the court; or (c) throws the ball against the side or the front face of the backboard, after which it rebounds into the hands of A2. RULING: Violation in (a) and (b), since the throw touched an object out of bounds. The throw-in in (c) is legal. The side and front face of the backboard are inbounds and, in this specific situation, are treated the same as the floor inbounds.

I'd say it's a violation based on it touching an object other than a player out of bounds.

Inquiring Minds ???
 

On a "run the endline" throwin, can A1 throw a bounce pass to A2, both whom are out of bounds? Is the ball touching the floor out of bounds on such a bounce pass (not a dribble, which is legal on all throwins) the same as the ball touching a wall on such a pass out of bounds?

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

Agreed, but the restriction on throwin only applies to the throwin pass. If it is not a throwin pass, touching OOB along the endline is not relevant. There is no part of the throwin rule that says the ball can't touch OOB if it is to another teammate who is also OOB along the endline....it is already OOB and touching something that is OOB doesn't change anything.

However, once released on the throwin pass, it is prohibited from touching anything OOB before going inbounds.

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

"Mmm Donuts" (Homer Simpson)
 

Does the NFHS have a donut hole in this specific situation? Is there no specific rule or casebook situation to cover a "run the endline" throwin where A1 throws a bounce pass to A2, where A1, A2, and the place where the bounce pass hits (the wall) are all out of bounds?

Because it's illegal for him to bounce the ball on the floor on the inbounds area.

Yes... but if you say it's legal for them to bounce the ball in an out-of-bounds area then that would imply it's illegal to do so inbounds.

Edit: I think maybe you misunderstood what I was getting at... or I didn't explain it very well.

I agree with Camron and Rich that there is no rule against the OOB pass between teammates behind the end line touching the wall or a chair or something else which is OOB. The only restriction is upon the actual throw-in pass.

That's exactly what I was saying, Rich. And I was aware of that case play also.

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.

Of course, but the gyms aren't *that* tight. It's the sidelines in those gyms that usually require the restraining line.

Keep in mind that in many of these situations (such as the one I described originally), the throw-ins are following made baskets, therefore, we have no real opportunity to impose one on the defense. There is a full 3 feet behind the end line and the wall, but virtually no more.

I agree, Bob, no advantage gained.

;) Ok, I'm buying that...I tried to make a valid argument and tried to bend the situation in 9.2.2 in my favor. However, if you would have giving ruling from 9.2.2 Situation D you would of had me... just trying to create a little discussion. :)

9.2.2 Situation D

Ruling: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

Granted, in my opinion, it would be a silly play unless you are playing Horse or making an And 1 video... I've got nothing unless they can't complete the throw-in within 5-seconds.

Good stuff!

Because it was written for more likely situations. How many of us have actually seen Rich's play?

Or Making A McDonalds Commercial ...