Since we are all off on wierd topics, how are local meeting in your area?

Are they require, suggested? How many do you have to go to? I think everyone has to go to a state meeting, although we have gone to an every-other-year rotation for those.

More to the point, do you get anything out of them? Most of ours start out by reviewing a rulr or two from the book, but degenerate in to ^*$& sessions, with 5 different people having a different interp of the rule, and you leave more confused than when you walked in.

I am just curious if this is how it is everywhere.

Ours are pretty structured and we meet about 8-10 times a year (mostly during winter ball). We check attendance and we can miss 2 meetings without being fined. If you are working a game, it is an excused absence. The President starts the meeting and then each commissioner (scholastic and rec ball) discuss things. The VP (who is also responsible for training) and the Secretary put in their $.02 worth. We ususally have a guest speaker (college coach, trainer, fitness guru, etc.), and twice a year we have vendors available before and after the meetings. I find the meetings very useful. We also have the mandatory clinics for fall (A & AA girls) and winter ball (A, AA, & AAA boys and AAA girls). This is the last year for fall ball because of a lawsuit -- next year boys and girls will all play in the winter.

My board has 5 meetings per year. All are mandatory. A missed meeting is a $10 fine. No exceptions. If you miss more than 2 meetings, you are placed on probationary status, which theoretically means that you can't work HS for the upcoming season (I think). The first meeting is the pre-season interpretation meeting right before Thanksgiving, where the rule changes are presented. If you don't attend the meeting (or another sanctioned board's interp meeting), then you can't work HS games that season. Then we have 2 meetings in December (schedules are distributed); one in January; and one in February. There is also an end-of-year banquet which is not mandatory; however, the cost of the banquet is included in our annual dues.

The meetings themselves are fairly structured. Most of the meeting is taken up with rules review/discussion, and sometimes we get "reminded" to use proper mechanics if our observers have noticed too many lazy or non-approved mechanics slipping into our games. We have a very good board interpreter, and he's very thorough. I would say that most of the rules review is geared toward the newer guys, so we tend to hear similar things each year, but it's still helpful sometimes.

After the interpreter is done, board business is discussed, if there is any. That's generally the time that by-law changes are brought up, or changes in the dues, etc. The meetings usually last an hour to 75 minutes. Not bad for a Sunday morning.

Chuck

Optional.
 

Well I belong to more than one association. None of them is it required to attend meetings. I attend all meetings because it gets your head into that sport and gets your anticipation up for it too. To me going to these meetings are just as important as working out for the season or reading the NF books. To others it is a chore to do this, but to me it is a necessity. A lot of guys to to get the Part 1 Exam or debate the answers at these meetings. Others go to get some kind of comity with their fellow officials. Others go to get games or to be precieved as a good officials. Whatever the reasons officicals attend, I think it helps you in the long run. But it is never required to attend.

Peace

We have 7 meetings plus the state interpreter's meeting. To get any varsity games, you must attend 5 plus the interpreter's meeting. If you are working an association-assigned game on the night of the meeting, you are counted as present. Missed meetings can be made up by doing things like evaluations (etc.) with the approval of the board of directors.

We always have business (paperwork, memos from the state) and then basketball discussion and scenarios. We also use it to be as consistent througout the association as possible on ununsual basketball situations that arise (maybe a gym with strange markings for instance).

We know that refs are busy and have families so we keep the meetings to exactly one-hour and cover a lot of stuff and follow our agenda to a T. The keeps them productive and doesn't allow for b&%#$ sessions (until afterwards of course). :-) The feedback from the general membership over the past two years is that the meetings are very productive and worthwhile.

Z

California is VERY structured
 

In southern Cal we meet 5 times before the season starts-each meeting goes about 3 hours, consisting of a general association meeting and we then break up into classrooms based on years of experience. Each class is led by 2 veteran officials (usually 8+ years in the association).

Additionally, we have to work a scrimmage the week before the season and we have an additional meeting after the new year.

If you miss a meeting you must make it up at one of 2 makeup sessions-if not, you don't work any games and your future schedule is pulled.

So what I am hearing..............
 

is that most careers are tied to their association. You have not individual freedom to not attend meetings without losing games? That seems to suck. Do these individuals give you a W-2 Form too?

So glad we have some independence here.

Peace

Re: So what I am hearing..............
 

Every system has its strengths and its weaknesses. The main advantage of the association system is that there is someone there to mediate between the ref and an angry coach, and there is somewhat stronger guarantee of getting paid. Other benefits I have received personally are the training, and the chance to rub shoulders with others and learn from them. I know these advantages aren't big for you since you have done very well for yourself. But some of us have needed more help and could never have survived to be successful if we didn't have an association.

Not that different from our system.
 

The part that stinks for me or would seem to stink is that you have to go to every single meeting to get games. You have to cater to every request from your association to simply officiate. I belong to Official's Associations that have everything you suggest, but they do not get into the business of assigning games or get your paid (liability issues are apart of this). All of them have forms of training and "rubbing elbows" with more experienced officials. You just do not have to answer to any organization for the most part. We have assignors or ADs of schools schedule games. Those are the only people you might have to answer to. Well some associations do get games from ADs and give it to their membership, but that applies to outside the Chicago area. But the big schools or most Class AA conferences have assignors for their conferences. And getting paid is usually never a problem. Schools either have a voucher system, you get paid on the spot with cash or a check or the assignor pays you himself (very rare). If schools have problems getting paid, the word gets around and officials will not work for those schools.

I guess I look at it this way. I belong to one of the best associations in the country. One of my associations have former and current officials have experience in the NFL, NBA, Major Leagues, Arena Football, XFL (when it was going of course), D1 Football, Basketball and Baseball and several other pro leagues that I could mention. The attitude around here is that you rub elbows with some great officials and going to associations will only benefit you in the long run. Those that attend want to get better and those that do not, well they do not get better in many ways either. But it is never required to officiate. If that was the case, many college officials would never get games at the HS levels. Many of them are attending functions or training that is far more advanced then what a HS Association can do for you.

But I guess that is my opinion.

We do not have to attend the meetings to get games. We usually receive 2 partial (usually 4-5 week) schedules by mail. You can pick up additional games at the meetings if there have beenf any turn-backs. The fine for missing a meeting (unless you have been assigned a game that night) is $10.00. Some officials don't attend any meetings and simply have the fine taken out of their earnings. Our first meeting for the coming year is 26 August and our checks for spring & summer ball will be passed out at the meeting. This is obviously one of the most "attended" meetings we have. In my area, schools cannot assign games. They can only be assigned by the assignor, either scholastic or recreation ball.

I guess we have it here better than I thought as well.

We have to go to 4 meeting or the state will pull our card, but we don't need the assoc. to get paid. Schedules are worked out with the schools and they pay you.

I know some areas get one check at the end of the year, that would have to be an accounting nightmare.

Rut,

Yes, our association supplies 1099 forms to each ref come tax time. It's nice not having to keep track of each paycheck from schools. As I said, there are ways to make up meetings and you can be excused if you are reffing a game that night as well. It's really not sucky" at all..in fact, it's quite nice. As someone else already posted, we don't ever have to deal with angry coaches and we don't have to worry about getting paid...it's all handled by the association. The association is set up to assist referees, not make things difficult.

We have several college officials in our association as well (including D-1), although they aren't rated in the top ten of our association. The board helps them make up meetings if they have to miss them due to college ball committments.

As you well know, training for high school officiating refs wouldn't be exactly the same as training for college refs. One isn't necessarily better than the other..they are just different in some ways. Therefore it makes sense that the college refs would be expected to attend. It's hard to be on the same page as your partner when they are officiating with college rules and mechanics in a high school game.

Peas

Z

As a beancounter, how would that be an accounting nightmare? Could be handled with an Excel spreadsheet, not to mention any number of off-the-shelf software packages. If you are one to be concerned about when you are paid, I can see where it may be a little disconcerting.

I just joined the association so I am not 100% on the meeting guidelines. I believe you have to attend 5 of the meetings to qualify for post season (not necessarily GET post season, just qualify). We meet once a month starting next month. They schedule high school games as long as they don't start before 6:00 on weekdays. Area JH and rec leagues have their own assignors.

By accounting nightmare I mean I log each game in a spreadsheet, then fill in the amount when the check arrives, double checking it against my contract.

Maybe they give you a detailed list dates, schools, and amount with that that single check, but if they don;t I think it would be hard to prove where an overage/shortage came if it was different than what you expected.

I know every now and then I get a check that is higher/lower than the contract amount, and it is not always easy to work with the school to get it fixed.

Reputation at stake.
 

OK, neither do we. I have never not gotten paid because of an angry coach. Usually the ADs handles it or someone associated with the school district like a Principal or someone assigned to be game management for that night. Extremely rare a coach would even be involved in that. Coaches have better things to do than pay us. In the end, they pay you regardless because their reputation is on the line. If they piss off officials for not paying them, they might be doing games by themselves. That is not something that any school wants, trust me on that one.

We had an association in the Chicago area that gave games thru the association. They would take out part of the money and pay a fee. Well, they got in trouble with the IRS for doing that and not claiming the officials as employees.

I guess what I am saying, I can get my own tax forms. I do not need any form from a school that I do not do over $600 for during a year. I do not need an association getting me paid for anything. The IHSA makes it clear that fines can come to a school that does not pay officials, especially for contracted games.

I would just rather stay independent and not have a gate keeper for my money.

Peace

Chicago associations are B.S.
 

Rut-

Having grown up and living in the northern suburbs, I've had the chance to learn about these associations as opposed to the one I'm a part of in LA (where I'm a student).

My problem with the way things are done in Chicago is that you have an extrmely political system that oftentimes doesn't allow the cream to rise to the top. I can remember during my high school days (I went to a school in the Central Suburban League, before they went to 3-man) there would oftentimes be officials that were, to be frank, terrible. And they continued to work varsity games, simply because they were "in" with the assignor.

In LA, while the same politics exist, there is still much more room for younger and newer officials to climb the ladder faster. This will be my 3rd year in the group, and I'm pretty sure I'll see some varsity action.

It sounds liek you've been fortunate enough to be connected with the right people early on, and that's great. Unfortunately, there are a lot of officials in the Chicagoland area, and some get the short end of the stick.

I am not talking Chicagoland.
 

Matt,

Of course I cannot speak for your situation. But the officials that advance that I have seen or get opportunities are the ones that are willing to travel or go to many camps. Associations that I have seen almost have no assigning influence (at least one over the other). I think that is mainly because no assignor that I work for in the Chicagoland area, is tied to any association. I work for different guys that hold their own camps, make their own evaluations and get recommendations from officials all over the area. Unless you work directly in the City of Chicago and belong to the COA or MOA (I belong to both. Got 3 games from the MOA last year), your involvement in those associations might be the only ones that might have a requirement of membership to do the Chicago Catholic League or the Public League. If you do games in the Suburbs, it is just a matter of travel. All the conferences around where I live are all assigned by individuals that get their own people. You do not need to belong to an association or any particular group to work varsity in those conferences.

I moved to Chicago about 4 years and walked into 2 Person games varsity games in the Suburbs. All I did was go to various camps and show what I had. Of course I gave background of games and places I worked, but I got varsity games after that summer I attended camps. I had not even join an association yet or "got in with the big dawgs."

Politics is everywhere. You will never avoid that.

Peace

Let me clarify further.
 

My comments are not about politics or lack there of. My comments were not about with association is better or not. My comments are only about associations assigning games. No matter how they do it, I think officials get the shaft ultimately. And you have older officials that can keep younger officials from doing bigger games because they can claim, "they are not ready." It seems to me like a basic conflict of interest.

Just my thoughts.

Peace

Brian, here's the NC structure
 

NC has a points system to determine whether you're a Class 1, 2, 3, or 4 official. Only Class 1 and 2 officials can wok playoff games.

NCHSAA Classification Index and Promotional Point System

- Class 1 A grade of 90-100 on the examination and a total of 90-100 points on the promotional scale.
- Class 2 A grade of 80-89 on the examination and a total of 80-89 points on the promotional scale.
- Class 3 A grade of 70-79 on the examination and a total of 70-79 points on the promotional scale.
- Class 4 A grade of 60-69 on the examination and a total of 60-69 point on the promotional scale.

PROMOTIONAL POINT SYSTEM
I. Examination - 30 points
National or North Carolina (Emergency Exam)
95-100 30 points (15 points)
90-94 25 points (12 points)
85-89 20 points (10 points)
80-84 15 points (7 points)
75-79 10 points (5 points)
70-74 5 points (2 points)

II. State Clinic Attendance - 15 points (required to work playoffs)

III. Local Association Meeting - 15 points

IV. Local Clinics Attended and Scrimmages - 25 points
Clinics Points (Scrimmages Points)
6 - 18 (2 - 7)
5 - 15 (1 - 3)
4 - 12
3 - 9
2 - 6
1 - 3

V. Games Worked - 10 points
1 - 9 games 5 points
10+ 10 points

VI. Varsity Experience - 5 points
5+ years 5 points
4 years 4 points
3 years 3 points
2 years 2 points
1 year 1 point

Local associations conduct the clinics. Do you have to attend clinics? No. But why would an assigner give games to an official who doesn't care enough about the avocation to come to meetings and improve himself? I wouldn't give games to such a person. As with anything else, you get out it what you put into it.

In Texas we are required to attend 5 meetings in order to receive our points for meetings. Each point goes toward reaching a desired level or standing. There is one meeting that all members are required to attend and that is the rules meeting. After that all meetings are optional. I agree with Rut. Attending the meetings is like attending church. You must attend to get your mind in the proper focus to be ready to officiate games.