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Welpe Wed Dec 23, 2009 01:14am

Coach Contacts Official
 
During a 7th grade girls game a couple weeks ago, I was at trail during the final seconds of the first half and had a home player on offense dribbling in towards the post. While still in my primary, the dribbler picks up her dribble, swings her arms around in a normal motion and lightly contacts the defender with her forearm, not displacing her. Before she can get the shot off, the buzzer sounds and I signal "no shot" while hitting my whistle.

As I meet my partner at half court and we walk towards the table, the visiting coach, upset with the no-call, approaches me and grumbles "Come on ref, you've got to call that foul. She shoved her like this." The coach then gives me a moderate shove with her forearm. I'm completely shocked and take a few steps back, then bark "Coach that is completely unacceptable! You are NOT to touch an official like that!"

She backed up, said "Oh we're yelling now?" and just walked away. I didn't do anything else and was seriously second guessing myself (I still am). I was completely shocked she did this. After officiating sports in some sort for 13 years, I've never had a coach or player contact me like this.

Thinking back about it, I should have at least T'd her up but should probably have given her flagrant T. I didn't for a few reasons, one being that I was completely taken by surprise (something about Jim Evans mentioning that surprise is an umpire's worst enemy comes to mind). Another reason being (and I know this isn't much of a reason) was that this was the only coach present for this team and I was afraid the game was going to end, which would punish the kids for their coach's stupid behavior.

I understand that this is probably HTBT, but I'm curious to hear what some of you think about this?

tjones1 Wed Dec 23, 2009 01:25am

I would have certainly whacked the coach. I'm on the fence as to whether I would have ruled it flagrant or not... probably a HTBT. I'm sure the coach was caught up in the moment and didn't realize what she was doing. Nonetheless, a coach should be responsible for their actions. A technical foul and a stern statement like yours ("Coach that is completely unacceptable! You are NOT to touch an official like that!") probably would have taken care of the situation.

Either way, I would write a report to my state association or supervisor detailing what happened.

While I understand your concern for not wanting to end the game because of the kids, the basketball court is an extension of the class room. Therefore, the coach's actions should be penalized accordingly. If an ejection occurs and the result is the end of the game then it's a valuable learning lesson that behavior of that nature is not acceptable.

Just my $0.02.

truerookie Wed Dec 23, 2009 02:04am

Situational awareness,


This coach was totally aware of the situation. The coach knew full well what actions were going to be taken. In my book, this would have been a Flagrant technical with letter to the school principal and one to state about this coach contacting an official in that manner.

I don't care what manner the game end.

Think of it this way, if you had violated her space what you think the consequences would be?

constable Wed Dec 23, 2009 02:06am

Coach absolutely 100% has to go home. No room for that. Officials shouldn't be contacted in that context.

Bye bye coach. Send a report to the people you send reports too.

Adam Wed Dec 23, 2009 08:11am

Hmmm. As of now, I'm in the basic T camp on this one. I wouldn't expect the coach of a 7th grade girls team to know the consequences of this action, so i don't think it was premeditated.

truerookie Wed Dec 23, 2009 08:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 645066)
Hmmm. As of now, I'm in the basic T camp on this one. I wouldn't expect the coach of a 7th grade girls team to know the consequences of this action, so i don't think it was premeditated.

Although, I understand your premise. I will say that a coach at the level (some) of the time have some type of basketball background.

Smitty Wed Dec 23, 2009 08:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 645045)
During a 7th grade girls game

Probably worthy of a T. And then she'd probably be done for the night anyway because her rant after getting the T would likely get her another one.

bigdogrunnin Wed Dec 23, 2009 08:42am

"Coach, in the future, please don't touch me again." It's an emotionally charged situation, and while it doesn't condone the coach contacting you, it has to be viewed in context. If you want to give the T, I have no problem with it. But, in the long run, you can build a better relationship with that coach while getting your point across at the same time.

I know others will disagree, but that is my opinion. I have been in this exact situation before, and this is how I handled it, and it worked out quite well. Never had an incident again, and the coach has never done it again either (to anyone).

grunewar Wed Dec 23, 2009 08:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 645066)
Hmmm. As of now, I'm in the basic T camp on this one. I wouldn't expect the coach of a 7th grade girls team to know the consequences of this action, so i don't think it was premeditated.

Whack! And, while I agree you can have some novice and none-too-informed 7th grade coaches.....now she does know the consequences of her actions.

jdw3018 Wed Dec 23, 2009 08:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin (Post 645078)
"Coach, in the future, please don't touch me again." It's an emotionally charged situation, and while it doesn't condone the coach contacting you, it has to be viewed in context. If you want to give the T, I have no problem with it. But, in the long run, you can build a better relationship with that coach while getting your point across at the same time.

I know others will disagree, but that is my opinion. I have been in this exact situation before, and this is how I handled it, and it worked out quite well. Never had an incident again, and the coach has never done it again either (to anyone).

I generally agree. Regardless of the situation, "yelling" or "barking" at a coach rarely is going to make the situation better. I think a T is in order, to let her know it's serious, but it should continue to be handled in a professional way, and somehow bringing the level of emotion down would be preferable.

Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin (Post 645078)
"coach, in the future, please don't touch me again." it's an emotionally charged situation, and while it doesn't condone the coach contacting you, it has to be viewed in context. If you want to give the t, i have no problem with it. But, in the long run, you can build a better relationship with that coach while getting your point across at the same time.

I know others will disagree, but that is my opinion. I have been in this exact situation before, and this is how i handled it, and it worked out quite well. Never had an incident again, and the coach has never done it again either (to anyone).

+1

tomegun Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin (Post 645078)
But, in the long run, you can build a better relationship with that coach while getting your point across at the same time.

Maybe later, if I have to go to the restroom, I can drop something to rival that. :D

archangel Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin (Post 645078)
"Coach, in the future, please don't touch me again." It's an emotionally charged situation, and while it doesn't condone the coach contacting you, it has to be viewed in context. If you want to give the T, I have no problem with it. But, in the long run, you can build a better relationship with that coach while getting your point across at the same time.

HTBT, but I lean towards a T.
How I call/ no call is not going to be based on "building a relationship" with a coach. This shouldnt be a factor at all...

Adam Wed Dec 23, 2009 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin (Post 645078)
"Coach, in the future, please don't touch me again." It's an emotionally charged situation, and while it doesn't condone the coach contacting you, it has to be viewed in context. If you want to give the T, I have no problem with it. But, in the long run, you can build a better relationship with that coach while getting your point across at the same time.

I know others will disagree, but that is my opinion. I have been in this exact situation before, and this is how I handled it, and it worked out quite well. Never had an incident again, and the coach has never done it again either (to anyone).

A T helps build the relationship that is appropriate, IMO. If she calms down, she gets to stay and coach from her backside.

A T is her warning for future games.

Adam Wed Dec 23, 2009 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 645071)
Although, I understand your premise. I will say that a coach at the level (some) of the time have some type of basketball background.

I hate to say it so bluntly, but the last coaching job assignment handed out in a district is going to be the 7th grade girls coach. You're as likely to get the track coach making some off season money as you are someone with basketball background.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 645079)
Whack! And, while I agree you can have some novice and none-too-informed 7th grade coaches.....now she does know the consequences of her actions.

Agreed. I did say ring her up, after all.

chartrusepengui Wed Dec 23, 2009 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 645285)
I hate to say it so bluntly, but the last coaching job assignment handed out in a district is going to be the 7th grade girls coach. You're as likely to get the track coach making some off season money as you are someone with basketball background.

Nah - you're going to get the newest teacher hired regardless of their background!!!;)

Adam Wed Dec 23, 2009 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui (Post 645288)
Nah - you're going to get the newest teacher hired regardless of their background!!!;)

Or the teacher would couldn't make it to the previous year's Christmas Party.

"Hey, Bob, we made coaching assignments at the Christmas party. Guess what!"

Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 23, 2009 06:44pm

I agree, this is HTBT. The way I picture the OP, I see a frustrated, inexperienced coach trying to demonstrate to the official the contact she believes just occurred. Is this inappropriate contact? Absolutely.

But I'd prefer a more "measured" response. A very direct, "Coach, you do realize that intentionally contacting an official is pretty much an automatic T and probably an ejection too, right?" I expect her hand to come off me like I was a hot stove and her next words to be an apology. If that happens, we move on. If not, I whack her and we move on.

grunewar Thu Dec 24, 2009 07:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 645309)
Or the teacher would couldn't make it to the previous year's Christmas Party.

"Hey, Bob, we made coaching assignments at the Christmas party. Guess what!"

Cruel, but I like it!

26 Year Gap Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 645505)
Cruel, but I like it!

I know that those who did not make the first dorm section meeting were nominated as fire marshals. One year my roommate said he could not make it and to NOT nominate him for fire marshal. The guy across the the hall had the same situation. You KNOW what happened.:cool:

Welpe Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:38pm

First of all, thank you everyone for the feedback. I appreciate all of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 645352)
I agree, this is HTBT. The way I picture the OP, I see a frustrated, inexperienced coach trying to demonstrate to the official the contact she believes just occurred. Is this inappropriate contact? Absolutely.

You hit the nail on the head and that is exactly how I viewed the situation at the time. I just don't think she knew any better AND let her emotions get the better of her.

Now, I recognize I probably could've handled the situation better. I pride myself on usually having a very level head and maintaining my composure in tough situations but this one caught me at just the wrong time I guess. As I've said, this is something I've never had happen in one of my games and I was honestly a bit pissed. I don't really take kindly to people putting their hands on me in an aggressive manner.

For what it's worth, I did seem to get my point across because the coach didn't say boo the rest of the game and actually sought me out and apologized afterwards for losing her cool. I just said thanks as we left. I do see how the message could've been better delivered. As has been said, experience is the best teacher.

Thanks again folks.


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