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-   -   Fouling on 3-pt. Attempts (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55920-fouling-3-pt-attempts.html)

chseagle Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:38pm

Fouling on 3-pt. Attempts
 
A1, in the process of shooting a 3-pt. shot is fouled by B2. The shot attempt is successful. Accoding to the case play listed in "Officiating Basketball", A1 is then going to shoot 2 Free throws.

How often does something like this happen?

I know the ruling is in process of shooting a 3-pt. shot that's missed, that 3 free throws are awarded, but hadn't until now heard of 2 free throws being allowed after a 3-pt. attempt was successful after being fouled.

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:46pm

Only if the foul was rule intentional.

tjones1 Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:50pm

How old is that book you are reading? ;)

JRutledge Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 642673)
A1, in the process of shooting a 3-pt. shot is fouled by B2. The shot attempt is successful. Accoding to the case play listed in "Officiating Basketball", A1 is then going to shoot 2 Free throws.

How often does something like this happen?

I know the ruling is in process of shooting a 3-pt. shot that's missed, that 3 free throws are awarded, but hadn't until now heard of 2 free throws being allowed after a 3-pt. attempt was successful after being fouled.

How would you get 2 shots? The only way you could get two shots on a 3 point shot is if the airborne shooter has returned to the floor and is then fouled while the team is in the double bonus. Or if this was an intentional foul situation. But if the foul is apart of the shot attempt, it has to be 1 shot.

Peace

chseagle Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 642676)
How old is that book you are reading? ;)

The book has a copyright/publish date of 2005.

I just reread the case, the headline for the case says "Making the call on an intentional foul".

It's just something I hadn't heard of or seen before, so was wanting some clarification.

chseagle Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:17am

Here's how the case is stated in the book:
A Centralia player is driving in for a fast-break layup & is intentionally fouled while shooting. The ball goes in. What is your call?

What would your call be if the shooter was intentionally fouled in the following situations?

1. The 2-pt. attempt did not go in.
2. The shooter is fouled in the act of shooting a successful 3-pt. attempt.
3. The shooter is fouled in the act of shooting an unsuccessful 3-pt. attempt.


Here's how the ruling us stated in the book:
The basket counts & the Centralia player who was fouled receives 2 free throws for the intentional foul. After the free throws, Centralia gets the ball at the OOB spot nearest the foul.

If either the 2-pt. or 3-pt. attempt are unsuccessful, the shooter gets the appropriate number of shots-2 for the 2-pt. attempt, 3 for the 3-pt. attempt-& Centralia gets the ball at the OOB spot nearest the foul. If a 3-pt. attempt goes in, the shot counts, the player gets 2 free throws & Centralia gets the ball at the OOB spot nearest the foul.

Welpe Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 642675)
Only if the foul was rule intentional.

Just for completeness, also if the foul was flagrant.

chseagle, the case play you've posted is correct.

chseagle Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 642681)
Just for completeness, also if the foul was flagrant.

chseagle, the case play you've posted is correct.

So the situation would only occur if say the person who fouled the shooter was purposefully trying injure the shooter? Or maybe there's too much physicality between the two so the foul was done in retailiation?

Adam Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:35am

For an intentional foul, there will always be at least two free throws. If the three point shot is not successful, there would be three. Plus the ball at the spot nearest the foul.

Adam Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 642683)
So the situation would only occur if say the person who fouled the shooter was purposefully trying injure the shooter? Or maybe there's too much physicality between the two so the foul was done in retailiation?

If the player was purposefully trying to injure the player, it would be a flagrant. An intentional is not defined that way. It could be excessive contact, it could be a simple push or hold that is obviously not playing the ball.

JRutledge Tue Dec 15, 2009 01:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 642687)
If the player was purposefully trying to injure the player, it would be a flagrant. An intentional is not defined that way. It could be excessive contact, it could be a simple push or hold that is obviously not playing the ball.

The foul does not have to be intent to injure. The foul could be savage and violent in nature as well to be flagrant. At least that is the definition. ;)

Peace

26 Year Gap Tue Dec 15, 2009 06:24am

time to get rid of a new poster...

mbyron Tue Dec 15, 2009 07:36am

Another way to end up with 2 free throws: shooter returns to floor, is then fouled, and his team is in the double bonus. ;)

Raymond Tue Dec 15, 2009 08:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 642678)
The book has a copyright/publish date of 2005.

I...


Here you go: http://www.nfhs.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=3283

Adam Tue Dec 15, 2009 07:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 642688)
The foul does not have to be intent to injure. The foul could be savage and violent in nature as well to be flagrant. At least that is the definition. ;)

Peace

I know, but I was answering his question regarding intent to injure.

biggravy Tue Dec 15, 2009 09:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 642673)
A1, in the process of shooting a 3-pt. shot is fouled by B2. The shot attempt is successful. Accoding to the case play listed in "Officiating Basketball", A1 is then going to shoot 2 Free throws.

How often does something like this happen?

I know the ruling is in process of shooting a 3-pt. shot that's missed, that 3 free throws are awarded, but hadn't until now heard of 2 free throws being allowed after a 3-pt. attempt was successful after being fouled.

But was his shirt tucked in?

grunewar Wed Dec 16, 2009 06:31am

Had one last night.....
 
FB game last night. V up by two. 2.7 secs left in the half. V inbounding the ball on the endline after made basket. I am new L. Only two V and H players in the backcourt (to include inbounder). I move downcourt to cover my area/players.

Ball inbounded to V2 who takes a few dribbles and heaves a shot from the backcourt around the foul line extended. TWEEEET! Buzzer. Me. :eek:

Partner called a foul on a three-point shot for V. H coach goes nuts - at his player for being stupid. Partner said H player ran right into shooter.

Amazingly, the V player made all three shots. V eventually won by six.......

Never had a three-point foul called that far away before.

constable Wed Dec 16, 2009 08:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 642673)
A1, in the process of shooting a 3-pt. shot is fouled by B2. The shot attempt is successful. Accoding to the case play listed in "Officiating Basketball", A1 is then going to shoot 2 Free throws.

How often does something like this happen?

I know the ruling is in process of shooting a 3-pt. shot that's missed, that 3 free throws are awarded, but hadn't until now heard of 2 free throws being allowed after a 3-pt. attempt was successful after being fouled.

2 if intentional, 1 if not.

I've heard more about this "Officiating Basketball" book in the past 10 minutes of perusing this forum then I ever have before.

It was published in 05. We are 15 days away from 2010- I think we should start referring to the 09/10 rule and case books.

Raymond Wed Dec 16, 2009 09:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 642908)
FB game last night. V up by two. 2.7 secs left in the half. V inbounding the ball on the endline after made basket. I am new L. Only two V and H players in the backcourt (to include inbounder). I move downcourt to cover my area/players.

Ball inbounded to V2 who takes a few dribbles and heaves a shot from the backcourt around the foul line extended. TWEEEET! Buzzer. Me. :eek:

Partner called a foul on a three-point shot for V. H coach goes nuts - at his player for being stupid. Partner said H player ran right into shooter.

Amazingly, the V player made all three shots. V eventually won by six.......

Never had a three-point foul called that far away before.

I've called one before. 2/3's of the length of the court, defender thought he could get a free whack at the shooter because of the situation.

chseagle Wed Dec 16, 2009 08:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggravy (Post 642822)
But was his shirt tucked in?

I would have no idea if shirt was tucked in or not, the case play didn't say LMAO.

Anywho, isn't that up to the floor officials to let the player know about the jersey being untucked?

Anymore I only mention it if the person's subbing in, which is rare since they're tucking it in while waiting.

representing Wed Dec 16, 2009 08:42pm

In the 2009-2010 NFHS CASE BOOK, this exact situation is given as an example.

on page 28 of the Case Book, under 4.19.3:
B1 is charged with an intentionalfoul on A1 who is in the act of shooting: (a) a successful two-point or three-point try; (b) an unsuccessful two-point try; or (c) an unsuccessful three-point try.

Ruling: in (a) and (b), A1 is awarded two free throws. in (c), A1 is awarded three free throws. In all situations ollowing the free throws, Team A is awarded a throw-in at the out-of-bounds spot nearest the foul.

pretty simple and straight forward.

fullor30 Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 642696)
time to get rid of a new poster...


Now, now.......we all started somewhere:)

biggravy Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 643220)
I would have no idea if shirt was tucked in or not, the case play didn't say LMAO.

Anywho, isn't that up to the floor officials to let the player know about the jersey being untucked?

Anymore I only mention it if the person's subbing in, which is rare since they're tucking it in while waiting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 640731)
I had a similar situation last year for a Girls' C-Squad game, only it was metal bobbie pins & butterfly clips in the hair. She went through warmups and nothing was said. It wasn't till she came to the table to sub-in, that I noticed it, buzzed the floor officials about it & they gave the coach a warning about not following uniform rules/regulations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 640768)
Actually, Most, if not all, the floor officials I've worked with have appreciated the fact that I've kept myself up to date on uniform regulations & catching things that wouldn't of been caught otherwise.

I've done the same thing during dead ball situations where a player is on the floor with the jersey untucked.

So which is it?


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