Assistant Coach during V games
 

Can someone quote the NFHS Rule/regulation # that states:
"Assistant coaches do not have the same rights as Head coaches & MUST remain seated on the bench"?

I am wondering this as for the past couple of years, the assistant Girls' coach has been continually hovering over the scorebook at the scorers' table & I see, from viewing the WIAA Online Rules Clinic that this is a POE from NFHS this year.

Organ Grinder . . . Monkey
 

10-5-1: "The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench, except:
a. By state association adoption, the head coach may stand within the
designated coaching box".
Rule book does not use the term "assistant coach. By inference it is clear that the coaches box, along with the privilege to stand, is afforded only to the head coach.
Had this last week. Cf. "Jack-in-the-Box" Coaching thread previously posted.
If the phraseology you're looking for shows up elsewhere, it will no doubt be posted soon by a member who knows.

Rule 10-5 Head Coaches' Rule

Article 1...The head coach shall remain seated on the team bench except:

a. By state association adoption, the head coach may stand within the designated coaching box described in 1-13-2...

Seeing as how an assistant coach is not the head coach, he's not allowed to stand. Also, the only time the head coach can be at the table is to notify the table he's calling a timeout for a correctable error

c. The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with the personnel at the scorers table to request a time-out as in 5-8-4.

Since assistant coaches are not allowed to stand, they are also NOT allowed to stand to go to the table. This was a POE several years ago as well.

More specifically, look for the rule regarding bench decorum; and when members on the bench are allowed to stand.

More importantly, it's up to the officials to enforce this.

I wish I had the access to both the NFHS Rulebook & the WIAA Rulebook, unfortunately I do not :(

To give an idea, at least once during every Girls' Varsity Game, the assistant coach stands up, goes behind the scorers' table & looks at the scorebook.

Why I was asking is cause of the fact that I saw this as a POE this year on the WIAA Online Rules Clinic, however there was no rule/regulation # listed.

Who should I notify about this happening, especially with it being a POE? The Head Coach, The AD....

You should notify no one. If the officials are going to enforce it, they will. It's not your job.

I agree. On the other hand, if the coach's actions by word, action or attitude are in any way harassing or intimidating to the table crew, or interfere with their ability to do their job, then the officials do need to be notified.

In an ideal world, we would have circumferential vision and be aware of everything that goes on. The reality is that our primary focus needs to be on those ten players on the court - everything else is secondary.

I am glad that this queston got asked. I witnessed this last night (from the stands) in a BV game. The visiting assistant and the head coach were almost bumping into each other the whole first half. It appeared that someone may have said something to them @ half, because in the second half the assistant was visibly trying to stay seated. He did pretty good @ it, but I could tell that he was ready to jump up often. LOL

As I have just started to read the rule book, case book, and officials manual, I thought that only the HC had the right to use the coaching box. Thanks for answering my question as well.

Assistant coaches are like children. They should be seen and not heard.

I would add that, for me, it depends on what "continually" means. If the AC is periodically checking the official score book to verify fouls on players or how many timeouts they have left, I am inclined to ignore it (I know this is not IAW the actual rule). If it becomes a problem, or it is being done to influence the scorekeepers, then I will deal with it.

Most cases I see are an assistant going to verify that they are tracking on the fouls. Briefly yelling out a defense, or set play. These two instances seem more common in my experience. However if the guy or gal is standing to much a quick word with the HC generally clears it up. I use them at timeouts occasionally to address little things like someone getting stalled in the lane, or a sketchy screen. Something like that can help if use sparingly.

Was watching a BJV game the other night before our V game that was to follow.

The visiting team had the BJV Coach and the BV Coach on the bench at the same time. The BV Coach must have thought he was in charge...because he kept standing and giving "directions" to the players on the court.

Both Coaches would take turns standing up during the first half.

At half-time we told the BJV crew to not allow this. We advised them to tell the Coaches that only one of them is allowed head coach status for the game...and for the Coaches to choose whomever that would be.

Second half...BV Coach did not stand.

What I mean by "continually" is that the AC goes over to the table at a minimum once a quarter to look at the scorebook (either checking player performance or foul status).

The person handling the scorebook is great at letting the HC &/or AC know when someone is in foul trouble, or the timeouts left. During the Varsity games, the scoreboard/timer & scorebook are in constant communication with one another as to who shot the ball, who's got how many fouls, & AP.

Why I am asking for opinions &/or thoughts is that how I am reading/understanding the POE, the only time an AC is supposed to be standing up outside of the Coaches Box is when a timeout is called or coming on the floor for pregame or back from halftime.

J51969, I have a question: are you saying that you intrude in the team time out to comment to the coach, or give instruction to "address little things?" I hope not. That 30 or 60 seconds it too often too brief as it is, and that's my time for me and my team. I'm not sharing it with a referee unless I only called the time out because we need a rest. All due respect, but if it's game tactics, coaches don't have time durring a time out to discuss anything with a referee. That's not why we take a timeout, and it's not the intent or purpose of a time out. No more than you would call an officials time out to discuss the play my team just ran with me. I would find the intrusion into my time out unnecessary and exceptionally irritating. We are often not ready at first buzzer, I need those 10 more seconds. As far as I'm concerned just make the call. Make the 3 second call on my player, make the illegal screen call on my player. That's how they will learn. In practice when I do have time, I can bring up the calls and make sure the player understands.

When I was coaching at Jr High level, sometimes a referee would actually take a few seconds to explain to a kid what offensive 3 seconds in the lane is, or that a screen must be stationary, etc, etc. I realize it's my job to make sure my players understand how to play within the rules, but I appreciated when referee's took a moment to do that. I believe it's considerate to the bewildered kid who is clueless after the call, and that kind act aligns my own primary credo that it has to be about the kids first. But that's very different from intruding on a time out.

You did say, "used sparringly," so perhaps you use great discretion. I just though it important enough to say something. Because a new and impressionable referee could be reading this and think it's a good idea to just walk up and stick his nose into a team huddle and interrupt the coach. Bad idea.

If this is not what you were saying, or implying, I appologize. :)

You're right coach. From now on, officials at your games should just call the technical the first time your AC stands up. No problem.

Coach, I think he's saying he uses the assistant coaches for this purpose. Personally, I don't do that. There aren't many things I approach a coach for, and lane camping and moving screens don't qualify. I'll talk to the players about those things, it's more effective.
I will, however, tell the assistant coach when the team has used their last TO. I don't want to interrupt the HC's time. I'll immediately take a moment to talk to a HC if a player is getting close to crossing the line and getting a T. If, somehow, we missed a player's Live Long and Prosper bracelet and see it as she heads to the bench, I'll tell the coach as I run by.

The fact that this is lost on you is not surprising. I did say sparingly and offered a few possible situations. Not something I do on a regular basis, but would be lying if I said never have. How is this such a major intrusion. Assistants usually are on the outside looking in on a time-out anyway. They aren't in there running there mouth while the boss is doing his thing. You have completely missed my point and seemed offended that we as officials would anything other than a whistle to manage the game. Good luck with that attitude and philosphy.

I think everyone needs to relax on this one. Coach thought you meant you talked to the HC about these things during the timeouts (a reasonable assumption since you didn't specify; but an incorrect assumption since this thread is about AssCs).

The bit in red above seems a bit gratuitous, IMO. And the part in blue is a non sequitur. It doesn't follow logically from what he wrote. Hell, he even offered the possibility that he misunderstood you.

Especially at the JV / C-level games you do, let it go. THere often aren't enough bodies on the bench to keep track of it there.

To imply that this is so egregious during at time-out is kind of ridiculous to me. That’s all...moving on

During the JV & C-Squad games, I only have to worry about the one coach. Periodically, the V Coach will check the JV Book for a player's playing status as they're also a V player. However, the V Coach normally is doing that at halftime, during timeouts, or after the final buzzer.

The AC is doing the scorebook check while ball is in play during the V games.

I'm just trying to properly interpret the POE.

bbcoach7...

I'm surprised nobody here has corrected your mistaken thought that you only have 10 seconds left after the 1st horn...

you in fact have 15 seconds left after the 1st horn on all timeouts and disqualifications.

60 second time out...horn sounds at the 45 second mark/with 15 seconds left

30 second time out...horn sounds at the 15 second mark/with 15 seconds left

DQ....horn sounds after 5 seconds with 15 seconds left

at least that's the way we do it around these parts.

Was I off topic, or you?
 

I was responding to a specific comment by j51969. Had nothing to do with assistants standing, or not standing. What I said was don't interrupt me durring a time out to discuss a 3 second call, or bad screening form. My impulse would be to ignore the intrusion, but I wouldn't do that because I'm a nice guy. Some other coaches probably would not be nice. Then we have a resentment, and possibly an antagonistic situation that should have never been that way just because some rook decided it was super important to give a coach instructions about a 3 second call.

A week ago my team was getting whipped (we are very young and not basketball smart yet) by a much better team. My asst kept standing up and hollering (at the team), then sit right back down. I was trying to keep it light, one of the referee's was directly in front of me (shooting free throws situation), and I saw him glance over at my assistant, so I told him, "do us both a favor and tell him to sit down and shut up." He thought that was pretty funny. Then I went and sat next to the asst and told him what I said. He was not as amussed, but did smile and did quiet down.

thanks Snaq
 

as usual, you saw throught the situation and got the communication as was intended. I bet you're a damn good Referee too

Probably going to regret this, because
 

it's impossible to stick one's toe in a bowl of poo poo and not get some on you. :D So no way I'm coming away clean.

First I must commend you Mr alpha numeric, for knowing me so intimately that you are not surprised that something is "lost on me." Your intuitive powers of deduction into the human psyche is phenomenal. Rarely... rarely I say, have I ever encountered anyone who is so adept and all knowing that he can read a post (maybe a few) and conclude so wisely. *sarcasm off*

I was an assistant, so please allow me to inform you what I would have done as an assistant had you come up to me to talk about either of the two examples you gave- 3 seconds, or illegal screen. No wait, I'm being overly generous. What you actually said was, "someone getting stalled in the lane, or a sketchy screen." I am not aware of either of those two violations. Maybe you can provide me some more of your insight with a rule book reference? I've never seen anyone drive their car into the lane and have it stall. Nor have I ever seen anyone bring a sketch pad onto the floor durring play to draw a screen. Just wondering, do you also report calls as "over the back," or "reaching in?" Hey, it's a reasonable question considering the "stalled" and "sketchy."

But I digress *sarcasm button back off* Basically I'd say nothing, do nothing with that information on screens and 3 seconds. I'd keep it to myself and not waste anyone elses time with it. There's nothing of value I could do with that information that I didn't already have/know before you related it to me. I was there. I heard the call. What do you suppose the asst would do? "Umm excuse me Coach (to HC), the Ref just wanted us to know that he made a 3 second call because Susie was in the lane for more than 3 seconds." You just wasted both of our time, but I wouldn't say that to you, or roll my eyes at you. In the moment, I would have said thank you to you, because that's the polite thing to do. Your intention was good. Perhaps a bit naive or missguided, but none the less good intent. Maybe later after the game for a laugh, I might have asked the HC if he saw the Ref talking to me and wanted to know what he told me.

These examples are entirely different from the types of information examples told to a coach (HC or Asst) that Snaqwells gave.
The intent here is also good. The difference is that this is intelligent information that can be used right now and is very much appreciated. As for the, "good luck with that attitude" comment, well I'm not a young kid anymore, and it's my experience that the advice we give to others is very often the exact message we need to take to heart for ourselves. I don't know you, but I suspect you may want to give that some thought unless you just don't care.

I happen to enjoy a very good relationship with the game officials in my area. I don't yell at referee's, I don't ride them, I don't even speak under my breath about them. I give them the respect they deserve because I know that each one of them is doing his or her best to make the calls as they see them. And that's all I can ask for. You come into my gym, and I welcome you and treat you with respect even if I know you're the guy who assumes to know me and doesn't have a clue about me. Not because you can "T" me, but because that's who I am, and it's about kids first. The example I set for the kids is more important to me than *****-ing about any call I think was missed.

Your interpretation should be to ignore it, unless the actions are causing you to be unable to do your job.