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-   -   point of emphasis traveling (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55655-point-emphasis-traveling.html)

fullor30 Fri Dec 04, 2009 09:54am

point of emphasis traveling
 
I don't know if my antenna is up because of recent POE, but it seems like I'm noticing more traveling than I ever have. My area of concentration this season is to be focusing more on a player receiving and in possession of the ball taking two steps. Watched a GV game last night and in one possession as the ball was being rotated several times, clearly saw four travel violations. They receive the pass, establish pivot, move non pivot foot, then pivot, all with in a second or so time frame.

That said, watching recent ACC/BIG TEN Challenge, I saw the same violation plus other numerous traveling situations. Mostly however when player in possession was not being closely guarded.

My question is do our D1 brethern pass on these calls when there is no or little pressure, especially at the point, as there is no real advantage/disadvantage? If so, would you only call it if egregious?

IREFU2 Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 639596)
I don't know if my attenna is up because of POE, but it seems like I'm noticing more traveling than I ever have. I seem to be focusing more on a player receiving and in possesion of the ball taking two steps. Watched a GV game last night and in one possesion as the ball was being rotated several times, clearly saw four travel violations. They receive the pass, establish pivot, move non pivot foot, then pivot, all with in a second or so time frame.

That said, watching recent ACC/BIG TEN Challenge, I saw the same violation plus other numerous traveling situations. Mostly however when player in possession was not being closely guarded.

My question is do our D1 brethern pass on these calls as there is no real advantage/disadvantage? If so, would you only call it if egregious?

I cant speak for D1 officials, but I know that traveling is kind of a weak spot for me. I have set a goal this year to do a better job at making sure the player has control of the ball and then has established a pivot. We often times do it the other way around and call travels when the player hasnt gained control of the ball yet. It is a POI in the NCAA. Just my 2 cents.

dsqrddgd909 Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 639596)
They receive the pass, establish pivot, move non pivot foot, then pivot, all with in a second or so time frame.

My question is do our D1 brethern pass on these calls when there is no or little pressure, especially at the point, as there is no real advantage/disadvantage? If so, would you only call it if egregious?

Traveling is definitely an area on which I need to improve. I'm having a hard time picking it up as I'm trying not to be a ball watcher.

Do any of our vets have tips on how to be better on this?

grunewar Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 639662)
Traveling is definitely an area on which I need to improve. I'm having a hard time picking it up as I'm trying not to be a ball watcher.

Do any of our vets have tips on how to be better on this?

Traveling and ball watching are two totally different things.

This POE was drilled into our heads during summer and fall ball.

BOTTOM LINE: When the ball comes to the player in your immediately identify their pivot foot......and what they can and can not do.

Took me a while and I'm probably not "there" yet either - but, I'm better. An area I need to continuously work.

fullor30 Fri Dec 04, 2009 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 639662)
Traveling is definitely an area on which I need to improve. I'm having a hard time picking it up as I'm trying not to be a ball watcher.

Do any of our vets have tips on how to be better on this?

Gosh, if it's in your primary, I hope your watching:eek:

just another ref Fri Dec 04, 2009 01:22pm

This may be part of the problem. Traveling, particularly by a post player, is often easier to see from farther away. It is not unusual for a travel to be seen by everybody except the official with the ball in his primary.

dsqrddgd909 Fri Dec 04, 2009 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 639672)
Gosh, if it's in your primary, I hope your watching:eek:

Perhaps I misspoke. I am trying to officiate all of the action in my primary and not simply ball watch. I do pick up the player with the ball and try to officiate the defense. The traveling I have been told I'm missing is when a player catches the ball, establishes the pivot foot and moves that foot before releasing the dribble.

mutantducky Fri Dec 04, 2009 01:49pm

and don't call a travel when a player makes a fast move or a good/unusual post move unless it is. I've seen too many of those called. for me too many refs call a travel because IT looks like a travel.

wanja Fri Dec 04, 2009 03:11pm

Correctly calling traveling is just damn hard. My pet peeve is the inconsistency in calling obvious travels such as a hop (not a jump stop) before a jump shot, taking 2 steps back to position for a three and stepping after a jump stop. Getting these calls right is more a matter of officiating will rather than officiating skill.

Chess Ref Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 639679)
This may be part of the problem. Traveling, particularly by a post player, is often easier to see from farther away. It is not unusual for a travel to be seen by everybody except the official with the ball in his primary.

How true that one is.....I'm Lead. Team whipping passes around the 3 point arc, Comes into my primary ,as I start to turn to get on the ball, 2 post players start going at it. So understandably my attention is diverted and apparently we had a big old travel. Partner saw it but thought I had a reason for passing on it, so he passed. I told him I passed cause I didn't see it.

fullor30 Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 639679)
This may be part of the problem. Traveling, particularly by a post player, is often easier to see from farther away. It is not unusual for a travel to be seen by everybody except the official with the ball in his primary.

True of course, my reference in OP was primarily point or perimiter situations. Especially with no pressure.

fullor30 Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 639683)
Perhaps I misspoke. I am trying to officiate all of the action in my primary and not simply ball watch. I do pick up the player with the ball and try to officiate the defense. The traveling I have been told I'm missing is when a player catches the ball, establishes the pivot foot and moves that foot before releasing the dribble.

Yep, that be the one...........

fullor30 Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutantducky (Post 639690)
and don't call a travel when a player makes a fast move or a good/unusual post move unless it is. I've seen too many of those called. for me too many refs call a travel because IT looks like a travel.

If it looks like a duck, walks like duck, quacks like duck..............

fullor30 Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chess Ref (Post 639764)
How true that one is.....I'm Lead. Team whipping passes around the 3 point arc, Comes into my primary ,as I start to turn to get on the ball, 2 post players start going at it. So understandably my attention is diverted and apparently we had a big old travel. Partner saw it but thought I had a reason for passing on it, so he passed. I told him I passed cause I didn't see it.

I'm lead, and there is post play, I'm looking upstairs. I expect my partners to grab the travels.

Adam Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutantducky (Post 639690)
and don't call a travel when a player makes a fast move or a good/unusual post move unless it is. I've seen too many of those called. for me too many refs call a travel because IT looks like a travel.

Oh I don't know. If it looks like a travel to me, it's a travel. :)

CMHCoachNRef Fri Dec 04, 2009 07:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutantducky (Post 639690)
and don't call a travel when a player makes a fast move or a good/unusual post move unless it is. I've seen too many of those called. for me too many refs call a travel because IT looks like a travel.

In all my years of going back and reviewing video tape of games, I will tell you that us referees MISS about 20 travel calls for every travel we call that is NOT a travel. 90% of the time a travel is called that is actually NOT a travel is on a "distance" travel -- i.e. a play in which a player covered a lot of ground even though the player used a legal number of steps.

BillyMac Fri Dec 04, 2009 09:21pm

"A little traveling music..." (Jackie Gleason)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wanja (Post 639711)
Correctly calling traveling is just damn hard.

Agree. I think it's the hardest call to make correctly in basketball. Harder than the block/charge.

Back In The Saddle Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 639768)
If it looks like a duck, walks like duck, quacks like duck..............

What is the signal for a duck?

mbyron Sat Dec 05, 2009 07:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 639825)
What is the signal for a duck?

http://www.mcalcio.com/wordpress/wp-...er_fallout.gif

BillyMac Sat Dec 05, 2009 07:30am

Duck !!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 639825)
What is the signal for duck?

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/12f55a849e3fcc58

BillyMac Sat Dec 05, 2009 07:32am

The "Kiss Your *** Goodbye" Drill ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 639847)

I'm old enough to remember these drills. One involved sitting in the school hallway, backs to the lockers, with our heads between our legs.

hoopguy Sat Dec 05, 2009 09:02am

Spin move travel tip
 
I have been watching a lot of D1 mens basketball and it is driving me crazy how the spin move travel is never called in any of the games I have watched. I have a really simple fool proof way of seeing this travel.

If the ball handler picks up his drible facing the basket and spins around so that he is facing the basket and jumps off two feet then it is a travel. This is impossible to do without travel. The players do this so fast it is difficult to realize the pivot foot has been lifted and placed back down again but it has. Picture the ball handler when he picks up his dribble, the inside foot toward the basket is his pivot foot. When he spins and then jumps off two feet, the inside foot becomes the outside foot as he jumps off two feet. It is a travel. In real time, you just need to realize that if the ball handler picks up his dribble facing the baset and spins around and jumps off two feet then it is a travel. Watch how many times this occurs in a D1 mens game!! I really have a problem when a travel occurs on a scoring move and is not called. This is a game changing play when it is not called by the rule.

Another pet peeve travel that occurs less often is on the inside pass where the big player gets an inside pass and needs to jump toward the baskent and then jump up and dunk the ball. An obvious travel that never gets called in D1 mens.

In the women's D1 game, there has been an emphasis on the spin move travel and it is rarely done without being whistled as a travel.


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