What do I do?
 

Varsity Boys Game. I'm an up-and-coming official who after a few years of hard work, camps, watching film, attending games and listening to everyone's advice have made it on the varsity list. Both my partners are experienced guys. I've learned to keep my mouth shut when needed and to just do my job.

We start the game with the toss and on the first dead ball after the toss I realize the home team is in black and the away team is sporting the white. (I know it is something that should have been caught in the warm-ups but I missed it. In the post below by IndianaRef they caught it in the JV game, but our game didn't have a JV game prior http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...wear-dark.html). I know the rule 3-4-1c and the penalty 10-5-4.

So here is my question? What do I do?

A. Do I do what by rule I should do. Double T sit both coaches and move on with the game, possibly ruffling a few feathers of my partners, but doing what the rule book says.

B. Do I go talk to the R inform him of the situation and pass the buck onto him and willing to live with the decision he makes.

C. Or Do I just ignore it all together. No Big Deal. Both teams are happy. Move on with life and the game?

If you've been directed by your association to enforce the rule (or, rather, not directed to not enforce it), the first thing I'd do is get together with your partners. At the least, they need to know why you're doing what you're doing. You never know, they may have a reason for not enforcing the rule, and it's good crew communication in a situation like this to make sure everyone knows what's going on.

If you've been directed to enforce the rule, but after talking with your crew the R wants to pass on it, you've got a choice to make.

I go with C. If both teams are happy and there is a distinct difference between the home and away uniforms then you don't really have an issue.

I think it should be a state option to allow teams to decide what colour they want to wear.

Also, some schools aren't wealthy enough in some regions to afford two different sets of uniforms.

To be honest I don't know how my assignor or the association wants it dealt with. I just emailed them this morning.

The reason I gave option A. was because I thought if I just wack the teams on my own R wouldn't feel like he was being undermined (he may chastise me at half) because if I go talk to the crew and they decided it is no big deal then I'm in a really tough spot if my tenant beliefs are firm enough to enforce the rule.

Well my gut is this is one of the few rules that if broken doesn't give one team a particular advantage.

I did a Sr V game last night. Home team was in blue, visiting team was in red. No harm done.

That's certainly a possible option. That said, it's the opposite of good crew communication IMO, which is critical. I don't like that many of us have to deal with association politics, either, but it's a reality. Choosing to acknowledge that reality means Option A, B, or C may be the best answer. This isn't a case of a team gaining an unfair advantage, so I throw the "but the rules are the rules" argument out the window. You have to make a decision that 1. provides a quality experience for the teams; and 2. is your best effort at doing what you believe your association wants you to do.

I'm curious - what did you do?

I'd also consider asking the State association.

There was an email sent around here (IL) about a Thanksgiving tournament in which the host school was the "visitors" for a particular game, and, thus, was wearing a color. The "home team on the scoreboard" also wanted to wear a (different) color, since they had worn the white jerseys the night before. All coaches, etc., agreed it would be okay (no confusing colors, no one cared about the strict uniform requirements, etc.).

The state was notified and wanted (wants) the rule to be enforced.

Personally, I ignore it, but bring it to the attention of partners at half. Count it as a learning experience and file it away. It may have been discussed by both teams days before the game and agreed upon by both.

In my area, a team received new unis this season only to have home colors gold and away brown. A violation. They contacted turkey tournament school officials who switched them from home to away team. Since game was on a neutral court, problem solved.

Does one team gain an advantage by having wrong colors? No. Is it a rule? Yes.

To me, it's game management 101.

Our assignor is from the state association

I would just report the schools to the state association and let them handle it. I am not going to be too upset as long as I have 2 different colors. When the home was in black and visitors in white - I am going to assume there must have been some kind of communication between the schools.

Obviously in baseball, home and away can mean quite a difference.

Bob, are uniforms in baseball along the same guidelines?

It was agreed upon by both. I asked one of the coaches and he said that the home team wanted to have a "black out" game so the visiting team agreed to wear whites.

In one of the HS leagues I officiate, the home school wears dark and the visitors white. That's just what they do, I don't know why.

In this case, I would mention your observation to the R. I'm 99% sure he'll pass on it. If you were to override him in this case and whack both coaches, as a brand new varsity official, I think that's suicide. If anyone asks you why you let it go, you can rightly say you brought it to the attention of the more senior official and he decided to let it go (for whatever reason). Then it's his issue. I think you get in more trouble for crossing your partner(s) in this case, than for sticking your neck out to enforce a rule like this. JMHO.

K, so if I do that do I run the risk of being the "tattle-tell" and possibly get my partners in trouble for not having enforced it. I don't want to be know for having thrown my partners under the bus to the association and lose trust.

I believe you're from the same state I am. When the switch to white became mandatory, the state made quite a big deal about it. I'm pretty sure they'd back you for the T, but I'm not sure they'd necessarily want the T. Since you're the junior guy on the crew, I think I'd bring it to the R's attention and let him make the call. And then run it past Petty and/or your association president and see what they say.

Edited to add: You can probably find a way to raise the question without having to name names.

If you said nothing to anybody at the time, I wouldn't just report it. If you know the guys you called with, it might be worth a call to them to say "hey, I should have mentioned it last night, but..." and then see if they think it's worth reporting. I wouldn't report it to the state without letting them know, too.

You do want to get clarification from the state (through your assignor it sounds like) on what they would want done in this situation if you were to see it in the future. It would also be appropriate if the schools were notified if the state wants this enforced so they don't get nailed in the future after being allowed to do so last night.

There are no "color" restrictions on uniforms in FED, NCAA or OBR ("pro") baseball rules.

Traditionally, the home team wore white and the visitors gray (so the visitors' uniforms diodn't show so much dirt when they wore them on an extended road trip without laundry facilities in the early part of the 20th century).

What is the advantage of going with A?

I would go with B. In our state (I'm assuming that BITS is correct about your locale) the R is in charge. If he/she elects to ignore it and the state gets mad, you have shifted knowledge/responsiblity to him and you know that you let him know.

IMO, the mutual agreement of the coaches makes this no big deal. If I were the R, I would probably go with C.

Just MO.

Had a discussion at an association meeting a few years back where coaches "agreed" to some deviation of a rule that was seen as "no big deal." We were told bluntly that the coaches do not get to make that decision. What if they agreed to six fouls per player? Or a goal scored from beyond the arc was worth two points, not three?

The officials are required to know and to enforce all the rules. This advice was from a veteran official who is active in the state high school athletic association.

Apples and oranges, IMO. One team had white unis the other had dark. Play ball.

I don't know if there is any real advantage to A, unless you felt it needed to be done. I could have always plead ignorance to my partners and begged their forgiveness for being too controlling. I always had the "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" mentality with my parents. :)

I went with option B. I informed my partners and then moved on with the game.

Advantage to A is the coach has to sit and has a short leash. Thats a biggie:D

Then why are we even having this discussion? Game on, they both agreed earlier.

Because it is possible that they didn't bother to clear it with the state association or league office.
If I were one of the Us, then I would inform the R and let him deal with it.
If I were the R, then I would ask the home school if they received documentation or permission from the state office for their "black-out" game.

As officials we don't write the rules, we simply enforce them and we don't have the authority to grant exceptions or set them aside.

We've been down this road before. Take me to the woodshed. Game on, and I'm not reporting it. I can't even fathom any assignor in the Chicago area that would disagree with me.

I understand your reasoning, it just doesn't apply in this situation IMHO. I may point out to home school, as you mentioned, but would never ask for documentation. Seriously, I'd be laughed out the Chicagoland area.

Why do I picture some Nazi border agent saying " Papers Pleez"

A buddy of mine likes to tell this story. During pre-game warm-ups, he sees that one team has undershirts that do not match their game jerseys. He goes to the coach of the other team and asks if he is OK with this. The coach says, "So are we going to enforce some of the rules tonight, or all of them?"

The NFHS has made a push that officials are to enforce the rules. And every month or so, there is some thread where officials here make the case why they will not enforce thus and such a rule. If "home team wears white" is an option that can be decided between the coaches, then let the rule say so. Otherwise, I enforce the rules.

So when that coach gets whacked when he's 2 inches out of the box he shouldn't be surprised.

Isn't your state the one where the team was penalized for wearing illegal jerseys in the State Semi-final game? Didn't they claim that they had worn them all year and no official had said anything to them? Didn't Marty Hickman give an interview in which he essentially said, "too bad, penalize them, the officials need to do their job"?

Well, now we know who one of those officials was who didn't say anything about the illegal jerseys all year. I'll also wager that you didn't get to work at the State Tournament.

Out here, if you want to work come tournament time, then you had better do things by the book.

This has been drilled into our heads here in VA over and over and I am enforcing the rule. I'm not screwing my buds by having the, "Well the refs last game let us do it" card played.

As grune says, VA has may it very, very clear that they want the uniform rule enforced. Schools know it is THEIR responsilbility to get the proper clearance from the state if they need/want to deviate from the Home White rule.

We have several referees in Central Ohio who call EVERYTHING by the book -- literally, by the book. We have several other referees who follow the "Spirit of the Rules", but not necessarily EVERYTHING by the book.

It has been my experience as a coach and referee that the EVERYTHING by the book guys hit a glass ceiling well before the State Tournament level (they get Sectional and District games, but seldom do you see them in the Regionals or the State Final Four. The higher level games seem to be dominated by the "Spirit of the Rules" guys.

In this case, if you look at "advantage/disadvantage", the VISITING team may have been put at a disadvantage by allowing the home team to have their "Blackout" crowd get more into the game. But, the visiting coach was OK with it -- perhaps, the two teams had even agreed to change roles when they met for a second time later in the season.

In my experience, the guys who continue to move up are NOT the guys who show up their experienced partners (Option A definitely would do that). Guys who continue to move up are also typically NOT guys who want to show everyone in the crowd that they know every single rule in the Rules Book LITERALLY. If a player tragically dies in a car accident on a Wednesday and a parent of one of the players sews a small patch with the fallen player's number on it, that patch is illegal. YOU KNOW the penalty for this. What are YOU going to do?

High School sports are to be fun for the participants and fun for the students. Such an event ("Blackout") likely made the game more fun for all.

From what I have witnessed, if you want to be doing games at the Regional and State levels (and, perhaps, beyond that), I would suggest you inform the referee in your game. If he or she chooses to do nothing, that is his/her choice.

I would mention the situation to your assignor at some point to get his/her view on how to handle the situation in the future. If you want to continually move up, you tyically have to have the help of a number of folks -- ADs, assignors, fellow referees and coaches. It has been my experience that going out of one's way to look for trouble generally is not the best way to get there. There are several referees on this forum who are very successful and are very much by the book (Nevadaref comes to mind, very quickly). There are others on this forum who are also very successful and are in the other camp (JRutledge, for example). You have to decide how you want to be known within the basketball community. Good luck in your travels.

It's a 'bridge too far' trying to connect illegal jerseys with wearing away jerseys agreed upon by both schools prior to the game. As an above poster mentioned, are you penalizing a coach for being two inches out of the coaching box?

And the amount you care to wager? Christmas is right around the corner and I could use the extra change.

FYI , officials who didn't say anything regarding illegal jerseys worked the state final.

That said, I do enforce illegal jersey rules and also home and away color rule but not in this circumstance.

What's your position on lower level HS games in inner city schools( of which we have many in the Chicago area) that may have uniform issues due to lack of funding?

Well said.

Spirit of the rules= common sense

I have friend who is a Big Ten coach(football) and likes to use the acronym 'CTA'

Can't Teach Awareness

By "State Tournament" Nevada means what we would call "State Finals."

I suspect it would be different this year.

The uniform rule specifically does not apply to lower level games in IL.

It's a 'bridge too far' trying to connect illegal jerseys with wearing away jerseys agreed upon by both schools prior to the game. As an above poster mentioned, are you penalizing a coach for being two inches out of the coaching box?

And the amount you care to wager? Christmas is right around the corner and I could use the extra change.

FYI , officials who didn't say anything regarding illegal jerseys worked the state final.

That said, I do enforce illegal jersey rules and also home and away color rule but not in this circumstance.

What's your position on lower level HS games in inner city schools( of which we have many in the Chicago area) that may have uniform issues do to funding?

What if one team was wearing illegal jerseys but the other team's HC "agreed" that it was alright? What if both teams are wearing illegal jerseys but both HC's "cleared it" with each other?

1) Nevada likes to deal in semantics, which I can appreciate, let's let Nevada say what he means.

2) Agreed.

3) I'm aware of that. Leading to what his State does out there.

So did you work the state finals last year? Bob is right - out here in Nevada, working the state tournament means the games between the final four teams in every class.

No, I did not work the state finals. The question was state tournament which is different in Illinois.

Bob is always right!

OK, Nevada said state tournament and after reading Bob's post I asked about state finals so we are talking about the same thing.

I guess the only question that remains is how you are sending Nevada his money - credit card, paypal, check or money order? :D

I'll send him his money after I receive mine. I work the state tournament, that was the question asked. Small, untraceable bills please. And since he was refering to the Illinois State tournament, I'm going to say I win!

Curious, how many officials in Nevada( the state, not the poster)?

Thanks. I've realized this and I'm still forming my opinions and philosophies which is why I threw the situation out there, so I could hear the advice and feedback and reasoning that seasoned guys on here could provide me. So I appreciate the help and insight from all of you! Thanks.

No and no as you posed it.

Regarding the particular event that was agreed upon for blackout night in OP, I'd stay mum, unless my R wanted to enforce it. It's just my philosophy to be more of a spirit of the rule official. I have no problem with anyone enforcing the rules.



Can you imagine a cancer awareness night and pink uniforms are worn(hopefully a girls game!) and coaches say they cleared it with the state, yet I demand to see documentation?

Funny thing is I typically do everything by the book or at least try to. From my experience, there are exceptions from time to time.

I enjoy different philosophies and opinions here as it tends hopefully to make us all better officials and I learn from everyone.

The Virginia High School League addresses this every year in the mandatory state clinics. As long as both coaches are aware and approve there is no problem. ;) This includes the use of pink basketballs (which I have never seen).

I'm glad that IL agrees. Per the NFHS, the rule for the home team to wear white does not apply to non-varsity games. They wrote that in the comments section the year that the rule change took effect. It appears that our friend is not aware of this.

Yes, I meant the final weekend, which is what we call the State Tournament. In NV, this is the last location where games are played and as tomegun writes includes only four teams in each gender and classification.
The other post-season games obviously feed into determining a State Champion, but we call them Regionals. I believe that other states have names such as Sectionals and Super-Sectionals.

There are about 150 basketball officials in my area. There are close to 350 where tomegun is. There is another small association on the eastern side of the state with maybe 35 officials.

I was under the impression that "state tournament" referred to whatever games take place in the central location; however many rounds that entailed. In Iowa, I believe it is the final 8 teams for each class and lasts a week for the girls and a week for the boys. I still haven't figure CO out, but I think it's close to that.

NV used to have eight teams at the final location, but cut back to four a few years ago to save money.
There is a push every year to return to eight, but it hasn't happened.

Karma's a b$tch. Guess what I had last night? :mad:

You forgot your uniform and had to wear your cute, soccer short shorts?

Permission from state?.................documentation?

No way!

Well, let's hear about it!

Do tell...and we want all the details.

Sung to the twelve days of x-mas
 

I'll take a guess:

Four double fouls, three false multiples, two bad blarges, and a coach that knew all the rules.....(seriously) :)

A black out game without state approval? :D

Home team in gold and an unhappy AD. :(

You frickin' rule book ref. :mad:

More, more, more..........

AD unhappy due to mistake in ordering wrong color unis? Or unhappy with you?

You tease, let's hear it!