Escorted out of gym by police tonight
 

I reffed a girls middle school game tonight which got really ugly. Made a questionable foul call, coach exploded, other ref threw him out of the game. I called a technical on one of his players earlier too. But the toughest to deal with were the parents. We had threats, police showed up, left. After the game one fan who I thought was going to hit the other ref said he was going to sue us. We just locked ourselves in the coaches office and called police.

Sometimes I question my foul call, that it was not necessary after letting the girls just play most of the night. But don't think it was necessary for the coach to erupt. His team lost by 15 points anyways so it would have hardly mattered.

I'm a rookie official, just my second game and I am learning a lot.

Wow, talk about baptism by fire! Your post is a little light on detail, but it sounds like you had a good learning experience, the kind you'll be learning from for a long time to come.

Obviously consistency is important. Changing how you call the game late in the game will usually engender a negative reaction. On the other hand, the phrase "letting the girls just play most of the night" makes me wonder if you were calling the game as tightly as it needed to be called to that point. Just some random wonderment.

Hope game number three goes much better for you.

Keep A Positive Attitude!
 

Glad you're already looking forward. As you point out, always lots to learn.

Although my situation was not as bad as yours, in one of my earliest school games (read, not Rec Ball), I had a coach come into the locker room to have "a word" with me and my partner after the game. Luckily for me/us, the seasoned, V officials were there and tossed him out. I immediately called/wrote my assignor. I was very down over that incident and really questioned why I even considered officiating.

Now, several yrs later, it is just another of my many experiences, negative that it was, that helped me grow and develop into to where I am today.

Continued good luck and growth! Keep having fun!!

I Once Had To Break Up A Fight ...
 

This situation almost always doesn't end well.

To be a bit more specific on the foul calls - first the "questionable call" that I made was against the defender in the 3rd quarter who bumped/ blocked the girl with the ball with her hip as she was driving the baseline towards the basket. It was a light bump but still a bump that blocked the offensive player and it happened right in front of me so immediately blew the whistle.

This is when the coach became furious at me and was immediately ejected from the game for leaving his coaching box because he received a warning about that earlier from the other ref.

I did question the call in my mind afterward thinking here I am just letting the players make harder contact under the boards then on the foul that I called.
Reason being it is very hard to call a foul in the paint when the players are so bundled up, I knew there was contact but could not tell who was fouling who - especially when they are all jumping together for a rebound.

I was told to only make calls that I was certain about.

What you describe (and you describe it in very certain terms as I read it) sounds like a foul. If you are saying that there was more contact underneath the basket and in the lane than other areas of the court then I believe that's the case with 99.9% of the games I've seen at most any level) Sounds to me as though you saw it and you called it.

Coaches in the Referee Locker Room......
 

I was shocked that the coach came in our locker room after the game. He was a first yr, young, JV coach (it was one of my first games too). After my report, I was told his school later officially reprimanded him.

I returned later that year to do another game and was very anxious...... It seemed to have been all forgotten, or at least misremembered. :eek:

Certainly a learning experience that's for sure.


I was told after the fist Gulf War, Colin Powell said, "Even Saddam Hussein has value. He can always be used as a bad example."

whether or not a call was "questionable" does not excuse inappropriate behavior of the coach or player. You called what you saw and did what you thought was right. Don't let that eat at you. If it was a mistake - so be it. It will not be the last one you make.

When this happens - keep hands to yourself, mouth professional and use the authorities as you did. If you are professional you will not need to worry about being sued either.

We had an incident last season where I called a flagrant personal foul on a player for A1 going to face of B1 with elbow and making contact - live ball sit. Coach went nuts and got a T. Following game he and his ***'t coach came after us swinging. We were heading to locker room located behind bench area and we were trapped with ***'t coming from one direction, coach from the other and we had to pass one to get to door. We hopped the chairs for the bench and went to center court and waited for police. A fan had called 911. We were threatened with legal action ....... etc. Cops came - one escourted us to locker room and to cars after changing. The other escourted players/coaches to bus. Turn's out the ***'t coach was 25 yr old son of coach and the player with flagrant was his nephew.

Cops were definately backing us as officials. Ironically, the fan that called 911 on the coach was the principal of that school. Next day we both received calls of apology and later a letter that indicatied coach had been fired for his actions. The worst thing we could have done was to act unprofessionally with word or action and escalate the situation. The only fallout we received was that we had to change a regional tournament game and drive further. We had been assigned at that school and didn't think it was a good idea to go there. State agreed with us and the state traded games with another set of officials at another site.

Wow, what I rough experience for you! (post directly above). I am going to print that out and remember it as I go through the season. Thank you for the post.

Actually the hardest part was trying to NOT respond verbally and wondering just how far to go to physically protect yourself. We chose jumping chairs and basically running to center of court away from them as a better choice than physically defending ourselves. That was the first time since 1983 that anything like that has happened to me. FYI - it didn't happen in '83 - that is just when I started officiating.

Don't let it eat at you, artar. It sounds like you had the balls to take care of business in a heated situation and that's not always easy for a first year official. Way to go. Get back out on the court and continue to improve every game.

That seems like a long time to go (since you started in 83) without an incident like that chartrusepengui. Definitely your description of fleeing from the coaches made them look bad and like you said, the coach was fired. It really tested my nerves last night. I was very fortunate to have an experienced ref at the game guide me through it all and settle me down.

Thanks for the comment bbcof83.

Ok, this struck me as I was reading the thread. Why was the coach ejected for this?

I've had "experiences" with coaches, T'd them but never had anything like that. As you gain experience, you will question yourself less in situations that become heated.

I've had one coach come into a locker room to request my name. I've had a parent ask for my name at an AAU game so she could report me to AAU. I've had a coach come to the locker room to try to get some clarification on a ruling. I've had one escort, after a player fight, more out of precaution. The home coach in that fight was mad that two of his players were ejected when only one from the other team (the one who started the mess) was; and was screaming down the hall as we left. He reminded me that we messed up the free throws, which was funny, because his team benefited from the screw up.

I remember my very first year officiating, I had several rec games one day, doing them by myself, girls youth, IIRC.

Anyway, girls game, and I don't even remember why, but some parent/coach got mad about some call or another. I ended up Ting up a coach, and while I was reporting the T, a parent who was leaning against the wall next to the bench said something to me as I walked by.

I couldn't really hear him, and he wasn't yelling or anything, so I turned and said "Excuse me?"

He stepped forward, and said in a quiet tone, "I said you were a ****ing *******."

At this point I notice that he is

A) Rather smelly,
B) Dressed like a bum, and
C) Carrying a rather large knife in a sheath at his belt.

Yes, I know, I am clueless to not notice any of this before I spoke to him - but honestly, I was not even aware anyone was all that upset. The coach I just T'ed wasn't even particularly angry.

So I turn away, walk back to the center of the court away from him, and indicate that there is an officials time out. I then tell the head coach (who I just T'ed) that the gentleman in question would be leaving the gym.

The coach has no idea what is going on, so I repeat myself. The guy in question says (loudly now) "I am not leaving - you cannot make me leave!". I say something like "We are not going to continue until he is gone".

The coach tells him to leave, and he does - as he goes he says "I will be waiting for you!", which I ignore.

I finish the game and the next one, put on my jacket and leave. He is sitting outside the door, but either ignored me or did not recognize me.

Looking back on it, I made a variety of mistakes.

1) I should never have responded to whatever it was he muttered at me to begin with. What good ever comes from talking to parents/fans????
2) I should not have thrown him out - I should have gotten whoever was in charge to deal with throwing them out.
3) In retrospect, why didn't I call the cops before I left? It was probably pretty stupid to just walk out of the gym like that after he said he was going to wait for me.

Live and learn though. Nothing ever came of it, fortunately.

Haha, Berkut, that is an incredible story. Did he look like this?

http://img2.allposters.com/images/153/862541.jpg

Had girl's 7th grade yesterday with a very annoying young coach, the usual stuff, screaming nothing but negative comments at his girls and the constant chatter directed my way. Did a few "unbelievables", which I should have whacked him for. And yes there is a God, his team blew a comfy lead and lost at the buzzer, which of course was our fault. He wanted to talk after game and I asked if it was pertaining to a rule question, which it wasn't. Conversation politely over(I wasn't giving him a forum for a free shot). He asked my name and I gave the obligatory "Mendy Rudolph" which he wanted me to spell(and I obliged).

Either his father or a parent suddenly was lurking over my shoulder and tried to get his two cents in.

Four Varsity boys' games over the Holiday and nary a peep from any coach.

Ya gotta love this game.

Why the coach was ejected
 

The coach was ejected for leaving his designated coaching area (box) and his behavior towards me. He had been giving a warning not to leave the coaching box one period earlier therefore getting furious with me combined with the previous warning to not leave his area resulted in the ejection from the other ref.

I lived in Panama City, Florida from 2001-04 and called games throughout the panhandle. It was not at all unusual to get police escorts off the floor, to our cars and out of town...off into the scary, dark Florida backwoods night :). High school basketball games were often the biggest events of the week/month/year in some of those small towns and the locals took them very seriously...tiny, old gyms were typically packed to the rafters and I loved working there. I'd guess 3-4 times a month my crew would "earn" a police escort of some type. There were armed policemen/women at every high school game I ever worked in FL and they were very proactive to ensure there were no incidences. Two drunks who got into a fight in the stands at one game spent the night in jail...that's the only "action" I was ever aware of.

My one question to Artar is how much experience your partner had? I know you said he was a vet, but one of my pet peeves is assignors assigning new guys together to work games with little-to-no veteran experience. 2-3 years of experience doesn't necessarily make a vet. Very tough situation for your second game ever :eek: ...it gets better.

I'm a university cop. I am also a basketball official. I pay special attention to the safety and well being of the crew that is on a game any night I'm working.

The officials dressing room is in a secure corridor- I doubt most people even know where it is. The dressing rooms in our facility are secure- you need an access card to open the door and there is a panic alarm inside which when activated rings through as 911 call to us. Thankfully we've never had to use it. I in the past have "escorted" the crew to their room so I could talk shop with them about ball.

Now I realize most of us here don't have the luxuries of such a set up.

The bottom line is when in doubt, call the police. They are trained and paid to protect us. Like I said, my vocation just has me in a uniform with a badge on it. My avocation has me in stripes, black pants and patent leather shoes that prompt my fiance to make fun of me. I know the differences between my 2 gigs and wouldn't hesitate to call my law enforcement colleagues if the situation dictated it.

Years ago, I tossed a kid from a local rec league game. After the game, his mom came up to me screaming in my face. She said she was going to "report me to the Board". I told her she already had. She said "Whaaaaa?" I told her I was the President of the Board (which I was that year) and that I would take it under advisement, then I said OK, I did and there was no merit to her complaint. I love doing stuff like that.

She just shook her head and left. As she was leaving, she shouted she was going to "get her money back". Since we don't charge admission, I took this to mean she meant her kid's registration fee. When I got home, I looked through our records and found that her kid received a full "scholarship" (as we call financial assistance) and didn't pay a registration fee anyway.

I never received a request from her for it and she wasn't at her kid's next game (I checked) which was his last one of the season. Since he was in his final year with us and she never registered any other kids, that was the last I ever saw of her. Darn - I was looking forward to having more fun with her.

Okay, leaving the coaching box is not a flagrant foul; it's a standard technical foul no matter how many times he's been warned. Unless there was something particularly egregious about his behavior (and leaving the box doesn't qualify as "egregious"), I don't see a flagrant foul there. Is there some special rule I'm not aware of in this league that boots a coach for one T?

Unless he had a previous T, or said/did something particularly flagrant, I'm not understanding why he was ejected. Again, it looks like a standard T.

My first year with my current association I ejected a JV coach. He came into the changing area after the game to apologize (my partner and the varsity crew were there as well). I reported the ejection and his coming into the dressing area (even though it was to apologize). Didn't need an escort on that one.

Two weeks ago my partner had just finished a 7th grade boys game and had gotten back to the dressing room. The coach knocks on the door and complains about the fouls (showing us the book for emphasis). I told him "Good game coach" and he leaves. Reported that one as well and thankfully didn't need an escort on that one either.

You did the right thing asking for an escort. Never be shy about the safety of you or your partner. I like to tell me partner in pre-game that we're the only ones that care if we get out the gym in one piece. I'm going to have to amend that to include law enforcement.

So what's the game fee in Afghanistan?

Call Security
 

"The bottom line is when in doubt, call the police."

Good point made by constable. After I was escorted from the gym last night the police officer told me not to hesitate to call anytime there is a basketball game where security is needed and the police will come guard the game.

Last night was the first night, first game I had ever been to where there was no cop present. I worked in the media 16 years as a sports photographer and never had been to a game (middle school included) where there was no security present.

I always call ahead for an escort service at my games. (imagine pic here) ;)

Why Imagine, I'll Post It For You ...
 

roflmao! :D

Maybe he went Pat Knight?

Avoiding confrontation is always the best choice as an official. I never respond to fans. A physical confrontation is the last thing any of us should want. You said you were wondering how far to go to physically protect yourself. For me, if someone comes at me swinging or grabs me, I'm going to put them down. I'm not taking a beating from anyone and nobody else should either. I'll do what it takes to neutralize an attacker so that I can get out of the area in one piece. We have had two incidents in my area in the past 5 or 6 years. One official was choked by a fan while leaving the floor and another was assaulted after the game in the dressing room by the father of a player from the losing team. Both of these were varsity games. I will always walk away as an official, but if somebody puts hands on us I think we have every right to protect ourselves.

Personally, I have never felt like I was in any kind of danger in the 9 years I have been doing this. I think it is a pretty rare a-hole that crosses the line into violence. Some of you guys have had really bad experiences that I am thankful I have been fortunate enough to miss out on.