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off topic- college soccer game
How about reffing this one. Why soccer sticks to one ref on the field is beyond me.
Elizabeth Lambert of New Mexico Lobos women's soccer suspended for rough play - ESPN |
She should be imprisoned for some of that crap.
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That was pretty outrageous
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WOW! That Lambert chick is nasty. Makes ya wonder how she behaves when the cameras aren't on her.
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Are beauty pageants athletic contests?
Heptathlete relinquishes her crown after bar fight. |
One of my 12 year old granddaughters plays on an U13 traveling soccer team and last Saturday, one of the girls on her team (who is also a close friend) had to be taken to the hospital during the game when she took a forearm to the face from a girl on the other team. She has a broken clavicle. The other girl was not ejected, but received only a yellow card. Go figure.
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The two linesmen are in charge of the offside rule and may call the referee's attention to rough play. Of course, being along the side line (only half of the field), they cannot help very much in this respect. There has been a test with two referees on the field, but it was wrong from the beginning: each one essentially covered half of the field. Useless. One of the objections was that two referees can't have the same way of judging the plays, go figure. :( Ciao |
yeah weird how they missed all that. Only one yellow card. I guess it would be tough to figure out but they need to experiment some more. There are a bunch of missed calls in big soccer games. Adds to the drama I suppose.
As for her. Appalling sure, but I know if they replayed it it would be the only women's soccer game I will watch this year. |
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I understand in certain areas in the US, high school soccer is officiated by two and three officials whom all have whistles and responsibility for calling fouls, etc. Soccer has the challenge of having to have coverage for offside infractions but I wonder if there is a better way? |
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I have a question for you, eg-italy: UEFA is using two additional referees to watch the penalty areas in Europa League* matches, to watch for the ball crossing the goal line and fouls in the penalty area. Have those extra referees made any close calls yet? What do fans watching think of this experiment so far? *Explanatory note for the confused: The Europa League is to the NIT what the Champions League is to the big dance. |
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Actually they might help in cleaning the play in the box, which is becoming more and more rough when waiting for a corner or penalty kick. A simple change in the rules would be much more effective, IMO: declaring that a foul can be called also when the ball is not in play. Ciao |
I understand missing one or two of these -- BUT ALL OF THEM -- and they werent even borderline these were as blatant as possible. The yellow card was a joke.
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I thought I'd seen it all......
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My son played HS and Travel Soccer. He was very fast. After a while teams would do anything to slow him down. Well, we saw our fair share of directs, indirects, penalty shots, etc. But then, he got kneed in the back and had his kidney bruised and lost a season. Then he got hammered and tore his ACL and lost a season. He rehabbed and fought to get back on the field. Then, he was fouled for the last time and suffered a broken ankle. Sad. He started track his Junior year. He loved soccer, but his poor body couldn't take the abuse. This player should be suspended/banned. No excuse.....and I have no idea what the officials were doing. Ridiculous. Someone could really get hurt. |
Updated: November 6, 2009, 5:36 PM ET
New Mexico player banned, apologizes <cite class="source"> ESPN.com news services </cite> Lambert Suspended For Actions Vs. 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BYU New Mexico women's soccer defender Elizabeth Lambert has been suspended indefinitely after engaging in rough play -- including hauling an opposing player to the ground by her pony tail -- in the Lobos' 1-0 loss to BYU in the Mountain West Conference semifinals. Lambert is prohibited from taking part in practices, games and conditioning, coach Kit Vela announced Friday. "Liz is a quality student-athlete, but in this instance her actions clearly crossed the line of fair play and good sportsmanship," Vela said. Video footage of the game shows Lambert, a junior, committing a series of excessively rough plays, including kicking, tackles, a forearm shiver to the back -- in response to an elbow to the ribs -- and yanking BYU forward Kassidy Shumway to the ground by her hair. Lambert was assessed a yellow card during the 76th minute, apparently for tripping. On Friday, Lambert apologized for her actions, saying she was "deeply and wholeheartedly regretful." "I let my emotions get the best of me in a heated situation. I take full responsibility for my actions and accept any punishment felt necessary," Lambert said. "This is in no way indicative of my character or the soccer player that I am. I am sorry to my coaches and teammates for any and all damages I have brought upon them. "I am especially sorry to BYU and the BYU women's soccer players that were personally affected by my actions. I have the utmost respect for the BYU women's soccer program and its players." The Mountain West said it endorsed New Mexico's discipline of Lambert, saying her actions violated the conference's sportsmanship policy. The conference said it would continue an internal review of "the overall dynamic involved in the match" and said it would not comment further. "Liz's conduct on the field against BYU was completely inappropriate," said Paul Krebs, New Mexico's vice president for athletics. "There is no way to defend her actions." BYU athletic director Tom Holmoe, in a news release, said Krebs had contacted him after the incident. "It's an unfortunate incident that occurred in the game Thursday afternoon," Holmoe said. "The University of New Mexico and the Mountain West Conference have reviewed the situation and have acted appropriately ... I am pleased with his immediate response to the matter." New Mexico (13-5-3) was the No. 4 seed in the tournament. Top-seeded BYU (17-2-2), ranked No. 17 in the NCSAA/adidas College Soccer Women's Top 25, advanced to the tournament final against San Diego State with the win. The Cougars scored the game's lone goal on a Carlee Payne header off a direct kick in the 31st minute. |
Soccer Box Score (Final)
Mountain West Conference 2009 New Mexico vs #9 BYU (Nov 05, 2009 at BYU PROVO UT) New Mexico (13-5-3 ; 4-3-0; MWC) vs. Goals by period 1 2 Tot BYU (17-2-2 ; 6-0-1; MWC) ------------------------------- Date: Nov 05, 2009 Attendance: 667 New Mexico.......... 0 0 - 0 Weather: SUNNY, CLEAR, LIGHT WIND BYU................. 1 0 - 1 New Mexico BYU Pos ## Player Sh SOG G A Pos ## Player Sh SOG G A ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ GK 1 CORNELL, Kelli...... - - - - GK 32 OLSON, McKinzie..... - - - - F 3 WILLIAMS, Jennifer.. 1 - - - MF 3 ANDERSON, Lauren.... 1 - - - D 4 QUADOR, Jess........ 2 1 - - F 7 PAYNE, Carlee....... 3 1 1 - MF 9 REED, Nicole........ - - - - D 8 KONING, Mercede..... 2 - - - D 10 MCFARLAND, Roxie.... - - - - D 11 Willis, Andrea...... 1 1 - 1 MF 13 FIELDS, Rachel...... 1 1 - - D 13 BARTHOLOMEW, Stacy.. 1 - - - MF 14 FANNING, Jael....... - - - - MF 15 KAKADELAS, Kelsea... 2 - - - D 15 LAMBERT, Elizabeth.. 1 1 - - D 18 LISONBEE, Lindsi.... - - - - D 17 CAVUOTO, Gianna..... - - - - F 21 SHUMWAY-C, Kassidy.. 1 - - 1 MF 21 COLLINS, Amanda..... 1 - - - MF 22 RINGWOOD, Jessica... - - - - F 23 WYNE, Zaneta........ 2 - - - MF 23 VANDER VEUR, Alyssa. - - - - ---------- Substitutes ---------- ---------- Substitutes ---------- 2 MONTOYA, Rachel..... 1 1 - - 4 JENSEN, Cami........ - - - - 7 BALL, Alexis........ - - - - 9 MARSHALL, Jennie.... - - - - 18 CRAIG, Jordan....... - - - - 14 JAMESON, Ashleigh... - - - - 24 MCKERNAN, Katie..... - - - - 16 JANIS, Auna......... - - - - 25 LUNA, Shelbie....... - - - - 25 URRY-Gilliam, Nicole - - - - Totals.............. 9 4 0 0 Totals.............. 11 2 1 2 New Mexico BYU ## Player MIN GA Saves ## Player MIN GA Saves --------------------------------------- ------------------------------- 1 CORNELL, Kelli...... 90:00 1 1 32 OLSON, McKinzie..... 90:00 0 4 Shots by period 1 2 Tot Saves by period 1 2 Tot ------------------------------- ------------------------------- New Mexico.......... 5 4 - 9 New Mexico.......... 0 1 - 1 BYU................. 4 7 - 11 BYU................. 3 1 - 4 Corner kicks 1 2 Tot Fouls 1 2 Tot ------------------------------- ------------------------------- New Mexico.......... 4 2 - 6 New Mexico.......... 7 6 - 13 BYU................. 1 2 - 3 BYU................. 8 4 - 12 SCORING SUMMARY: GOAL Time Team Goal Scorer Assists ------------------------------------------------ 1. 30:32 BY PAYNE, Carlee SHUMWAY-C, Kassidy; Willis, Andrea CAUTIONS AND EJECTIONS: YC-NM #15 (76:29) Officials: Referee: JOE PIMENTEL; Asst. Referee: MARK SACKETT; BILL DEBATTY; Alt. Official: ALBERT MONTALVO; Timekeeper: JERRY; Scorer: RACHEL / SARA; Offsides: New Mexico 1, BYU 4.</pre> |
I thought seriously about officiating soccer a couple years ago. In the end I decided against it. While toying with the idea I did study up a little about some of the officiating systems used. But I never got to try them, so I'm probably arguing from ignorance here. But with four officials on the game it sure seems like there is a lot those other three guys could do besides just watching for offsides, calling OOB, and taking care of subs. Give the linesmen a whistle and put them to work watching off ball. Better yet, give them primary (or shared with the center referee) responsibility in their "vertical third" of the field. I know it flies in the face of soccer tradition, but if we can call a better game with three officials in basketball, by dividing coverage, putting eyes off the ball, and allowing all three officials to make the judgment calls in their area...there is no way it couldn't help in soccer.
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She isn't the only one who should be suspended. She clearly should and could have been sent off for several of those infractions. I would be embarassed if my name was listed as an official for that match. :(
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Due to the size of a soccer field, the two-man system is a very poor one. Many of the "problems" develop in soccer games in the midfield and in the "dark corners" (opposite side of the field occupied by the two referees). It is very difficult for referees in a two-man system to get good coverage in the midfield or in the dark corners. The biggest challenge with any multiple whistle systems is the concept of the "Advantage" provision -- something I wish we actually had in basketball. As soon as a whistle blows, play stops -- thus taking away any possibility of allowing the team to "play through" a foul. It is typically much easier for the center referee to ascertain whether to apply "Advantage" to a particular play due to his/her angle on the play. Tennis uses SEVEN linesmen/umpires/referees to cover a match between two players. Granted, there are many situations involving points being awarded that lead to the need for the large number of eyes on the court. At the same time, I can see the logic of using up to SEVEN total referees in soccer. 1. A single center referee, 2. One assistant referee on each goal line (one on each side of the goal in top games with a video camera over top of the goal in top level matches) who would ONLY make goal kicks/corner kicks calls, 3. One assistant referee in the traditional positions for the purpose of calling the offside line, balls out of touch in their quadrant (there actually ARE primary areas of coverage in soccer's diagonal system) and signalling for fouls in their quadrant, 4. One assistant referee in the opposite quadrants from the traditional assistant referee positions -- these ARs would NOT be responsible for the offside line (covered by the opposite traditional AR) nor for the goal line (called by the goal line AR), but would be responsible for calling the ball out of touch (out of bounds) and signal foul calls in his/her quadrant. These last two assistant referees would significantly decrease the rough play in the "dark corners" of the soccer field. These are the corners OPPOSITE the side of the ARs. Due to a lack of help from the AR in these two quadrants, the center referee is primarily responsible for coverage in these quadrants. When rapid transitions occur, the center referee may be 40 - 60 yards behind the play. If the ball is played to the ARs side, the AR can identify foul calls. Unfortunately, if the ball is played to the opposite side, the center referee has a difficult time covering this play. I would add a second AR for each goal line in the highest level games (World Cup, EPL, MLS -- OK, a LITTLE STRETCH). This would leave a total of seven or nine referees in total. This would not be dramatically different than baseball which has an umpire behind the plate responsible for making most of the calls, but adding three to five additional umpires for the higer level games. This would maintain the "consistency" and the application of the "advantage" situations that today's single center referees manage. At the same time, this would give the center far more help on out-of play calls allowing the center referee to focus more attention on fouls on the field. Such a system would be completely impractical in youth games, high school games and even college matches as there simply are not nearly enough referees. But, baseball and football both use a far smaller "crew" in younger games and high school games than are used in the NFL or MLB. As fast as the game of soccer is today and as big as the field is (over 22, that's TWENTY TWO times the size of a basketball court!!!), the traditional three referee system with a fourth referee on the sideline does not do justice to the level of the match. By the way, contact while the ball is not in play will NOT result in a free kick or penalty kick, players can be and are shown red cards for violent conduct. The restart remains the same -- free kick or throw-in, but action can be taken. So, it's not as if the referees have no recourse simply because the ball is not in play. Not that I have an opinion on the subject......:rolleyes: |
A well thought out response, thank you.
One quibble, however, is with the notion that the only, or perhaps just the best, way to ensure consistent application of advantage is for the center referee to be the only one with a whistle. As I understand it, when you get to the highest levels, you very likely have a crew composed of seasoned center referees. In other words, the center referee for today's match was likely an AR on yesterday's match, and the ARs on today's match may each be center referee on tomorrow's matches. Every one of the officials on the field are qualified to read the play and apply advantage. We do it every night of the week on the basketball court, and usually manage to be fairly consistent in our application of advantage/disadvantage. I would be curious to know how often ARs make "foul calls" during an average match. Being as the center referee has the whistle, and I don't really know what to watch for, nor are the cameras on the ARs most of the time, I have no idea if this is done occasionally, frequently, seldom, 20 times a match. |
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In my opinion, the coordination involved in soccer for the "advantage" clause if FAR more complex than in basketball. While it would be possible to get this level of coordination in soccer, it would lead to a less consistently officiated game, in my opinion. The size of the court in basketball would make the use of a center referee very difficult -- we would constantly be in the way of the play -- or at least a player. But, how many times have you reffed a basketball game with a partner who calls a dramatically different game? This is especially true when working with a brand new official. This can be extremely frustrating for the players. What is a foul in one referee's area is NOT a foul in the other. What is an illegal dribble (palming) in one referee's area is permitted in the other. Such situations are dramatically lessened in the Diagonal system (center referee running a diagonal). Of course, adding the extra ARs would give the center referee more flexibility for positioning (we currently try to get to the left side of the ball). But, that is another story. As to how often ARs make foul calls, this varies dramatically by game. I am sure that you have reffed basketball games in which you go in at half time having called five total fouls between the three referees. You have also gone into the locker room have called 20 or more. It is somewhat dependent on the center referee's view of the game. I try to make calls in my quadrant that the center referee would also call if he were able to see the play as I did. Some HS/USSF center referees really like to let the players try to play through things. Others prefer to call a tighter game. In many cases, the center referee will reign in the teams if he/she feels the game is getting a bit too physical. In these cases, I will try to mirror his/her calling of the game. In most basketball games I have witnessed, each referee tends to call his/her own game much more so than in soccer. To directly answer your question, I have gone halves of games without making any fouls only indicating throw-ins and goal kicks/corner kicks. As a center, I have also had many ARs go through halves without making any foul calls. There are other games in which I have made 15-20 or more offside calls and/or 5 or more other foul calls in a half. |
Thank you for your detailed response. I did claim up front to be arguing from ignorance :)
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