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-   -   Is It a Foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55170-foul.html)

shawtydoowop Tue Oct 27, 2009 01:39pm

Is It a Foul?
 
Hey there. Just a weekend baller with a question to officiating experts out there.

I was wondering about a call that I got into a "discussion" with friends about this past weekend. A foul was called in which Player A went up for a jumpshot while being defended by Player B. Player B stepped forward, while Player A was in the act of shooting. During the shot, Player B lightly tapped Player A in the stomach.

Technically-speaking, is Player A entitled to a foul?

Indianaref Tue Oct 27, 2009 01:54pm

I would not call it if it was nothing more than a light tap. However, I would be telling player B to knock it off.

Scratch85 Tue Oct 27, 2009 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawtydoowop (Post 633087)
Technically-speaking, is Player A entitled to a foul?

Technically-speaking, you make the call;

4-19-1 A personal foul . . . involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements.

That's about all we have to go on. So in your sitch, it's judgement.

From my interpretation of your description, I would probably pass on it. My reasoning would be that it did not hinder the opponent. However, definitely a HTBT sitch.

shawtydoowop Tue Oct 27, 2009 02:25pm

OK. I see. It was a pickup game but I saw it as a foul.

Smitty Tue Oct 27, 2009 02:49pm

I don't think this scenario is so cut and dried. I have seen this more and more lately. It is definitely an attempt by the defense to hinder the shooter's concentration on the shot. If there is contact, I am more inclined to call this now more than I ever was before. It's a cheap attempt to alter a shooter's shot with no attempt to play the ball. Often there is no contact or maybe slight contact with the shooter's jersey. But if I see a defensive player's hand contact the shooter's body, I may call this a foul early. That should get the defense to knock it off.

mbyron Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 633109)
If there is contact, I am more inclined to call this now more than I ever was before. It's a cheap attempt to alter a shooter's shot with no attempt to play the ball.

Contact is not necessarily a foul.
An attempt to alter the shot is not necessarily a foul.
The defender's intent to alter the shot is not necessarily a foul.
Behavior you dislike is not necessarily a foul.

Call a foul if the contact in fact hindered the shot. Otherwise, tell 'em to knock it off.

Smitty Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 633119)
Contact is not necessarily a foul.
An attempt to alter the shot is not necessarily a foul.
The defender's intent to alter the shot is not necessarily a foul.
Behavior you dislike is not necessarily a foul.

Call a foul if the contact in fact hindered the shot. Otherwise, tell 'em to knock it off.

Intentional contact that is intended to do nothing more than alter an airborn shooter's shot is getting more attention from me than incidental contact.

I'm not saying I will always call it a foul, but I am more inclined to than not if there is contact.

grunewar Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 633109)
It is definitely an attempt by the defense to hinder the shooter's concentration on the shot.

Ref: TWEEET!

Coach: "Mr. Referee, Sir, May I politely ask why you called that foul?"

Ref: "Sure coach, he attempted to hinder the shooter's concentration."

Coach: :eek:

Smitty Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 633126)
Ref: TWEEET!

Coach: "Mr. Referee, Sir, May I politely ask why you called that foul?"

Ref: "Sure coach, he attempted to hinder the shooter's concentration."

Coach: :eek:

That's just stupid.

grunewar Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 633127)
That's just stupid.

Agreed, that's why it's important to use the proper terminology as has been pointed out (which was my point).

Smitty Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 633129)
Agreed, that's why it's important to use the proper terminology as has been pointed out (which was my point).

Huh? If the defender pokes the airborne shooter in the stomach, I will have no problem explaining that to a coach.

grunewar Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:32pm

The OP said the player was "tapped in the stomach."

I have no problems telling the coach to tell his player to knock it off or to call the foul if warranted.

But, I personally will not tell the coach it was an attempt to "hinder his concentration."

You can use those terms, I won't.

Smitty Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 633133)
The OP said the player was "tapped in the stomach."

I have no problems telling the coach to tell his player to knock it off or to call the foul if warranted.

But, I personally will not tell the coach it was an attempt to "hinder his concentration."

You can use those terms, I won't.

What are you talking about? Who said I would say that to a coach? Only in your mind did that conversation occur. I didn't even say I would automatically call it a foul. Hell, it could possibly even be an intentional foul depending on how hard the kid poked the other kid. I'm just saying I wouldn't just pass on it and say "knock it off" if the contact was enough to warrant a foul.

SAK Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:40pm

I know that this is changing a little bit but, what happens if the shooter is tapped on the lower leg? Is there a difference in what you would call?

Smitty Tue Oct 27, 2009 03:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAK (Post 633137)
I know that this is changing a little bit but, what happens if the shooter is tapped on the lower leg? Is there a difference in what you would call?

It depends. I don't even know if I'd call the poke in the stomach. It just depends on the contact and how it effects the shooter.


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