Jr High...GIRLS
 

Well during the regular season I don't do anything sub-varsity because my schedule is full with varsity and college assignments. However I decided that I would take some fall jr. high girls games this year. I asked the assignor to put me with new officials that may need some help, which he did. I had a parocial (catholic) double header on Saturday. What a fiasco. It was the "big"game well they thought it was, partner was a no show. Another official was there watching and they asked him to help (I might have been better doing it solo) Game 1 was fine. Game 2 the "varsity" was aweful Teams were both poor, but the fans and coaches thought they were great. Gym was way to tiny (Stage is outofbounds on one side) 2 T's one on a person running on court without being called on, during a live ball. And one on visiting coach for driving me nuts. AHHH! Sorry just needed to vent to others who have been there. :)

Ehhh...just a normal day at that level. :rolleyes:

I won't generally Whack! a middle schooler for that. :)

My immediate reaction to your post was, "Me neither."

But pretty quickly it turned to, "Well, why not?" It's a meaningless pre-season game at a level where the focus is, or should be, on teaching kids the fundamentals of the game. Meaningful learning involves more than just listening to instruction and doing what they are told, but in trying stuff, making mistakes, and learning from them. In the same way we come to own rules by kicking them, this girl now owns this rule.

Just thinking out loud.

Exactly.

Once, during a JrH girls game, a team was constantly taking their sweet time coming out of time outs/quarters. I used the resumption-of-play procedure, which resulted in a 5-second violation. The parents of the violating team were furious, and before I administered the ball for the other team, one parent said "you need to teach them. They're just young girls."

I turned around and told him, "That's how you teach them. By enforcing the rules."

Generally, I would agree with you on your thoughts about why you wouldn't whack the middle schooler for this, however what would you do if you had an opposing coach starts questioning you on why you didn't whack it? Are you going to whack that coach when he/she goes off on you for not whacking it? I had the same dilemma in a freshman football game when it came to lining up in the neutral zone and those little things, and it got ugly enough that I had to flag the coach for USC. Sometimes a little teaching sounds great, but there's always an a**hole waiting for you to flag or whack that s**t and ends up getting the flag or whacked.

Going into my first season, I'm wondering how many games I have will be like this? :)

A lot.

For me, this goes into the category - I always regret the T's I didn't give more than the T's I did.

Plus I agree with the sentiment as discussed here - teaching early.....it's like uniform violations or intentional fouls - "Well, that happened last game and it wasn't called."

Way to take care of bidness. (Of course, at the level you usually ref, you knew that! ;) )

Bits,
Girls' MS, as well as Boys' MS, often have very excited players coming off the bench for one of only a few times in a season.
Running out onto the floor could well be "glee" driven as opposed to advantage driven.
I can stop play without calling a technical and still live with it.
All players are not equal. :)

Situations like this are thankfully rare. It's usually a kid having a brain fart or lacking the kind of situational awareness that comes with time and experience. Although, I'm starting to like the idea of enforcement as a teaching tool to help facilitate that experience.

But, to your point. I have had coaches question this before. And I've had pretty good success saying, "Coach, I would do the same thing for your kids." Most good coaches understand where you're coming from.

But occasionally a coach will go off. Why? Sometimes he's frustrated, and taking it out on me. Some coaches just don't get it. Sometimes its tactical, creating a scene trying to intimidate me or to get his way by making it less painful to just give him what he wants. Note that all of these are "him issues" not "me issues". Unfortunately for him, I will not take abuse, I do not intimidate, and tantrums do not sway me. If you don't believe me, I'd be happy to provide you with references, both coaches and my children. :D

Sure, after a game like that I may re-think my approach to future situations. I don't like pain any more than you do. My goal is to achieve a good outcome to every situation. Some days I get better results than others. But I cannot let fear of a grown adult's potentially adverse reaction to dictate how I handle situations.

In the over 30 years our local kids rec league has been operating, our policy is to make the call, then explain the call (if necessary) rather than let the violation go. It is our philosophy that this is the best way for kids to learn the rules, plus it promotes consistency in the officiating. Prior to each season, we explain this to all the coaches at the annual pre-season coaches meeting. We've never heard (at least in the 17 years I've been on the Board) a persuasive argument against doing it this way.

If parents don't like it, they can join the Board and work to change it or they can put a sock in it.

Mick, I have to say that if you were my partner, and you handled this situation the way you describe, you'd probably get a smile and a thumbs up from me. :)

One important aspect that really hasn't been explicitly addressed yet is context. As you point out, there is a very real difference between a clear cut violation in an undecided game, and a rookie mistake by one of "the scrubs" while having his moment in the sun.

Amen to that.

I find that to be a very persuasive argument, backed up by significant personal experience. Hard to argue with that.

Thank you for contributing to my education.

Aw, you're just sucking up because he agrees with your way of thinking. ;)

(Btw, I agree with you, Padgett and mick.) :D

I don't have a problem with an official not calling a technical in a middle school game for running on the floor during a live ball. I've had it happen three or four times, but my philosophy is to always call the T. I think it reinforces the rule to the kids. I'll always tell the player why they got the T. I really couldn't care less what the coaches think about calling it or letting it go. We all let things go in middle school games that we don't in a varsity contest. If you called every single travelling violation in a 7th grade girls game, it would take three hours to play it. I call a lot of varsity ball, but I still enjoy doing some middle school games every year. No pressure, and it's fun to work a kids 7th grade game then see them as a polished varsity player four or five years down the road.

Boy, you must have some really good 7th graders where you work. :D If I called every travel in a 7th grade girls game around here, I might as well as count the game as my 2nd day job. :eek:

Try 5/6th grade girls.:eek:

Actually, he's changing my way of thinking. We'll see how long it sticks. :)

Agree
 

I usually woundn't give a T for a kid running on the court, but the coach was yelling thats a T, Thats a T so I did.

This has been an interesting read for me.

For those that do work the Jr High/Middle School games, what will you call on violations such as traveling? So far I know the book way to call these but I can see it being counter-productive to call every travel.

Oh, I dunno, I'm not sure I'd use the terms "enjoy" and "fun" in/around the discussion of some of the G 7th grade games I've done. But, I understand your point. ;) I have done one leagues B13U games every weekend for yrs and enjoy it.....most of the time.

I do agree though it is very difficult to "relaxe" the travelling call standard at the lower levels.

As is being discussed with the "T" call (for example), at what age/level do you just say - "I'm calling it every time, no question" and stop being the helper/teacher? I don't believe there is a right answer. 13 yr old boy AAU but not 14 yr old Rec? F HS? MS?

Just curious.

That’s a risky philosophy. Making a call because a coach is yelling for it, is allowing the coach to persuade your calls. The other coach could have easily yelled out, “Hey, you’re letting him call the game”. Next thing you know, you’ve got to issue another T and your credibility is in question.

Personally, I believe in giving the T right away as to help educate the kids. If you don’t give it the first time, you could be dealing with it the rest of the game. Giving the T is really no big deal. It’s just another foul and kids won’t be permanently scarred. Besides, if you do give the T you have the rules to back you and you don’t have to worry about the other coach complaining about it.

IMHO, travelling is a different story. That has to do with physical coordination and is still being developed in the JH leagues. Get the obvious ones, and “monitor” the lack-of-good-footwork ones. However, if you’re in the camp that wouldn’t T the kid for running out on the court, then stick with it and be consistent.

The coaches can certainly put us in a rough spot like that.

I have been there, and I'll go over to the coach and quietly discuss with him that going strictly by the book is definitely an option, while enumerating some of his uniform violations, some of the places he has been standing and how his chair isn't in the coaching box that he is no longer allowed to use.

They know some of the rules, but not as many as we do. ;)

There's another reason our kids rec league has the policy of making the violation call. Each year, we train a handful of new HS kids to be refs. It's hard enough doing so without trying to get them to let some calls go. Since we have so many young and relatively inexperienced refs, it makes much more sense over the long haul to teach them to enforce the rules. It's not just for having the young players learn the rules, it's for the young refs, also.

Here's one way to think about it:

For HS games, I'm looking for a reason NOT to call traveling. The toe barely slid, the shot was released at the same instant the pivot returned to the floor, etc. The default call is a travel unless I can find such a reason, and my main goal is to enforce the traveling rule properly.

For MS games, I'm looking for a reason TO call traveling. The player picked up the dribble and took 3 steps, the foot slid 5 inches, etc. I'm going to ignore it unless I absolutely can't. The default call here is no travel unless the violation is gross, and my main goal is to help the game flow.

and so does all the other players

I try to call violations based on the physical skills of the better team, because I do not want to punish the well-schooled, well-coached players.

I had a friend who asked me how many travel calls I have in these games. I told him enough for those girls to practice their arithmetic. :D If I did call all the travels in 5/6th grade girls, then my 2nd day job would have unauthorized overtime! :p

That's one reason why our kids rec league uses running clock at the lower levels. If we didn't, the games would take days with all the clock stoppages.

BTW - we have a Board mtg tonight to schedule volunteers for our no-cut tryouts and our draft, which are both coming up in the next couple of weeks (weekday evenings in Tigard at Fowler MS). Any of you who would like to help, just post your interest here. Thanks.

I'm with ya Mark!

We have our, I'm sure similar, four nights of registration fun (Didn't you get my check? My credit is too good. Here is a copy of my confirmation. Can't I register as a walk-in?), and no-cut tryouts (He's having a bad night. She's just a little nervous. She's not in playing shape yet. He's just a little sore from football practice, he'll be ok.) from 2-5 Nov at Mark Twain Middle School here in Alex, Va (wahoo!)

Let the season begin!