Jr High...GIRLS

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I find that to be a very persuasive argument, backed up by significant personal experience. Hard to argue with that.

Thank you for contributing to my education.

Aw, you're just sucking up because he agrees with your way of thinking.

(Btw, I agree with you, Padgett and mick.)

[IowaMike]

I don't have a problem with an official not calling a technical in a middle school game for running on the floor during a live ball. I've had it happen three or four times, but my philosophy is to always call the T. I think it reinforces the rule to the kids. I'll always tell the player why they got the T. I really couldn't care less what the coaches think about calling it or letting it go. We all let things go in middle school games that we don't in a varsity contest. If you called every single travelling violation in a 7th grade girls game, it would take three hours to play it. I call a lot of varsity ball, but I still enjoy doing some middle school games every year. No pressure, and it's fun to work a kids 7th grade game then see them as a polished varsity player four or five years down the road.

Originally Posted by IowaMike

I don't have a problem with an official not calling a technical in a middle school game for running on the floor during a live ball. I've had it happen three or four times, but my philosophy is to always call the T. I think it reinforces the rule to the kids. I'll always tell the player why they got the T. I really couldn't care less what the coaches think about calling it or letting it go. We all let things go in middle school games that we don't in a varsity contest. If you called every single travelling violation in a 7th grade girls game, it would take three hours to play it. I call a lot of varsity ball, but I still enjoy doing some middle school games every year. No pressure, and it's fun to work a kids 7th grade game then see them as a polished varsity player four or five years down the road.

Boy, you must have some really good 7th graders where you work. If I called every travel in a 7th grade girls game around here, I might as well as count the game as my 2nd day job.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Boy, you must have some really good 7th graders where you work. If I called every travel in a 7th grade girls game around here, I might as well as count the game as my 2nd day job.

Try 5/6th grade girls.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Aw, you're just sucking up because he agrees with your way of thinking.

(Btw, I agree with you, Padgett and mick.)

Actually, he's changing my way of thinking. We'll see how long it sticks.

[PIAA REF]

I usually woundn't give a T for a kid running on the court, but the coach was yelling thats a T, Thats a T so I did.

[Welpe]

This has been an interesting read for me.

For those that do work the Jr High/Middle School games, what will you call on violations such as traveling? So far I know the book way to call these but I can see it being counter-productive to call every travel.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

I call a lot of varsity ball, but I still enjoy doing some middle school games every year. No pressure, and it's fun to work a kids 7th grade game then see them as a polished varsity player four or five years down the road.

Oh, I dunno, I'm not sure I'd use the terms "enjoy" and "fun" in/around the discussion of some of the G 7th grade games I've done. But, I understand your point. I have done one leagues B13U games every weekend for yrs and enjoy it.....most of the time.

I do agree though it is very difficult to "relaxe" the travelling call standard at the lower levels.

As is being discussed with the "T" call (for example), at what age/level do you just say - "I'm calling it every time, no question" and stop being the helper/teacher? I don't believe there is a right answer. 13 yr old boy AAU but not 14 yr old Rec? F HS? MS?

Just curious.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I usually woundn't give a T for a kid running on the court, but the coach was yelling thats a T, Thats a T so I did.

That’s a risky philosophy. Making a call because a coach is yelling for it, is allowing the coach to persuade your calls. The other coach could have easily yelled out, “Hey, you’re letting him call the game”. Next thing you know, you’ve got to issue another T and your credibility is in question.

Personally, I believe in giving the T right away as to help educate the kids. If you don’t give it the first time, you could be dealing with it the rest of the game. Giving the T is really no big deal. It’s just another foul and kids won’t be permanently scarred. Besides, if you do give the T you have the rules to back you and you don’t have to worry about the other coach complaining about it.

IMHO, travelling is a different story. That has to do with physical coordination and is still being developed in the JH leagues. Get the obvious ones, and “monitor” the lack-of-good-footwork ones. However, if you’re in the camp that wouldn’t T the kid for running out on the court, then stick with it and be consistent.

[mick]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I usually woundn't give a T for a kid running on the court, but the coach was yelling thats a T, Thats a T so I did.

The coaches can certainly put us in a rough spot like that.

I have been there, and I'll go over to the coach and quietly discuss with him that going strictly by the book is definitely an option, while enumerating some of his uniform violations, some of the places he has been standing and how his chair isn't in the coaching box that he is no longer allowed to use.

They know some of the rules, but not as many as we do.

[Mark Padgett]

There's another reason our kids rec league has the policy of making the violation call. Each year, we train a handful of new HS kids to be refs. It's hard enough doing so without trying to get them to let some calls go. Since we have so many young and relatively inexperienced refs, it makes much more sense over the long haul to teach them to enforce the rules. It's not just for having the young players learn the rules, it's for the young refs, also.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

For those that do work the Jr High/Middle School games, what will you call on violations such as traveling?

Here's one way to think about it:

For HS games, I'm looking for a reason NOT to call traveling. The toe barely slid, the shot was released at the same instant the pivot returned to the floor, etc. The default call is a travel unless I can find such a reason, and my main goal is to enforce the traveling rule properly.

For MS games, I'm looking for a reason TO call traveling. The player picked up the dribble and took 3 steps, the foot slid 5 inches, etc. I'm going to ignore it unless I absolutely can't. The default call here is no travel unless the violation is gross, and my main goal is to help the game flow.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

My immediate reaction to your post was, "Me neither."

But pretty quickly it turned to, "Well, why not?" It's a meaningless pre-season game at a level where the focus is, or should be, on teaching kids the fundamentals of the game. Meaningful learning involves more than just listening to instruction and doing what they are told, but in trying stuff, making mistakes, and learning from them. In the same way we come to own rules by kicking them, this girl now owns this rule.

Just thinking out loud.

and so does all the other players

[mick]

Originally Posted by Welpe

This has been an interesting read for me.

For those that do work the Jr High/Middle School games, what will you call on violations such as traveling? So far I know the book way to call these but I can see it being counter-productive to call every travel.

I try to call violations based on the physical skills of the better team, because I do not want to punish the well-schooled, well-coached players.

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Try 5/6th grade girls.

I had a friend who asked me how many travel calls I have in these games. I told him enough for those girls to practice their arithmetic. If I did call all the travels in 5/6th grade girls, then my 2nd day job would have unauthorized overtime!