Whistling the "T"
 

The "Goaltending a Free Throw" thread got me thinking this . . . again.

When the clock is stopped and you find it necessary to call a "T", do you whistle and tap or just go to the table and report the "T"?

Hint: what's the proper procedure for calling any foul?

1. The clock may be stopped, but the ball is live.

2. The only time I would not use all the proscribed mechanics is when it might unnecessarily inflame the situation. I really can't, however, imagine such a circumstance.

Depends on the nature of the T.

For example, there is no need to make any significant display for an administrative T....you're standing at the table and are told there is no #24 in the book (but #24 is in the game). Just tell the coaches/scorers that #24 is not in the book and it a T is being issued...low key...and move on. You don't need to convince anyone....it is obvious...and everyone that needs to know has been informed. Even if you signal it, the crowd will have no idea what the problem is until/unless the announcers tell them.

If you have an unsportsmanlike situation, you better whistle it, signal it and deal with it before you go report.

In this case (GT on a FT) I think you have to do what the calling official did....maybe not as emphatically, but still whistled/signaled. It is sufficiently unusual and involving on-the-floor actions such that it must be made clear that the GT was a T. However, I'm not sure what they needed to talk about before signalling the T....unless one of them wasn't sure of the rule.

Cameron makes a great point.

Peace

I agree with all of this. Which means (I think) that we are not required to blow the whistle when we call a T. We do blow the whistle to stop the clock and to cause a live ball to become dead. So if both of these have already happened (stopped clock and dead ball) it is just our judgement if a whistle will help clarify things.

The thing about the goal tending a FT video that got me thinking was, one of the refs blue a whistle when the GT happened. The ball became dead when the violation occured, the whistle acknowledged the violation and the clock was not running. About 3-5 seconds later the ref "tweets and taps". I am thinking a nice visual "tap" would have been enough and then go report.

That being said, how would you handle the pre-game dunk? Whistle & signal as it occurs or simply head to coach & the table?

You do not need to get everyone's attention. The game is not live and all you need to do is inform the appropriate parties which include the table and the head coach (and your partners of course).

Peace

The ball was not dead when the goaltending occured during the FT. The ball becomes live when the free thrower is administered the ball.

There is nothing wrong with hitting the whistle again like the official in that video did.

The goaltending (violation) caused the ball to be dead. 6-7-9.

Yes, I know that. I thought you were saying the ball was already dead when the GT occured, which it was not.

As per the OP, what probably should have happened was that when the official initially blew his whistle and raised his hand, he should have signaled the T right at that time. However, this sort of thing happens so rarely it probably caught him of guard and he needed a second to digest what just happened.

I've edited my previous post to better reflect what I meant. At least we agree.:)

And...when making the T sign, make sure it's both hands flat and open. I saw an official once make the bottom part of the sign with a fist and the middle finger sticking out directed at the coach. Coach took offense at the sign (even though he knew he earned the T) and reported the official to the officials' association. That particular official never got to work at that school again.

Thanks JRut!

I know what you mean, but just for our newbies sake, the ball becomes live on FTs when it's at the shooters dispossal. It's at their dispossal when it is caught by the shooter.
So give the headless chicken a TO if it's requested prior to the catch.

Not that I plan on practicing this, but... NIIIICE!

Actually, this statement is incorrect, and perhaps the source of part of your confusion. If you look at the back of the rule book, under a page titled, "Basketball Rule Fundamentals", you'll see the statement: "An official's whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is already dead)."

So, you are correct in stating the violation caused the ball to become dead. But think of the whistle more as a signal or communication device. Most of the time the official blows the whistle to let the players know the ball is now dead, so they can stop playing. It also lets the table know to stop the clock, if it is running. The other obvious communication reasons would be to let players know we are ready to start play, such as the beginning of a game or quarter, before a throw-in after a time out, and so on.

That's why there is no definitive direction in the books about when and if to blow the whistle on T's. Camron and others have given some good advice on when to blow it, and when not to. In the case of the original play, the first official correctly blew the whistle to tell the players the ball is now dead and stop playing (because of the goaltending violation). I do think the second whistle might be a little unnecessary, but it also might depend on the situation, crowd noise, player activity, etc. Most of the time, if the ball is not live, players are not playing, and the clock is not running, you would not need to blow the whistle. The exception might be in the case of an unsporting T; and that might've been the reason the second official blew the whistle - out of the simple habit of many years of blowing the whistle and forming the T as one motion. :cool:

We are in agreement. But to clarify, we do blow our whistles to cause a live ball to be dead. 6-7-5. As you have stated, the ball usually is already dead when we whistle and we are merely acknowledging the violation and stopping the clock. But, if the ball is live and we blow our whistle, it becomes dead.

My confusion actually comes from seeing it done so many different ways. The good thing is, I think my approach is very much like yours and most of the very experienced posters I see here. Therefore, I'm comfortable with my approach.

I would encourage you never to use the proscribed mechanics. The prescribed mechanics are the ones to use. :D

Well, this isn't completely correct either. Think of a foul by a defender on a player in the act of shooting... ;)

Ok, I think you knew that, since you were were the one that brought up 6-7-5. But my point was there are many other instances in 6-7 where the ball becomes dead first, and the whistle is simply the signal to let others know. If you think about it, there are even a few times in 6-7 where the official does not even need to blow the whistle.

6-7-5 by itself doesn't really happen very often, so don't get too hung up on it. A possible example could be a kid from the stands runs out on the floor, so the official blows the whistle to stop play. But, most of the time, the other items in 6-7 occur far more often.

Mr. Grammar Guy lives!

(Damn, I agree with you. It must be time for the season to start!)

:D

If the official's whistle kills play, that's almost always a bad thing (something non-basketball is happening, inadvertent whistle, etc.).

It's a tough forum we live in
 

I'm just sayin' . . .

:D

Ahhh, reminds me of the halcyon days when Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy frequented this board, freely dispensing reproof. I'm misting up a little. ;)

Whistle, fist up, bird dog. Move towards the player who fouled and say his jersey color and number. Then give the preliminary signal (the NFHS doesn't have an official signal for illegal dunking but you can put your arms above your head and them move them downward like you are dunking a ball). Next signal the number of free throws you are awarding. Move around the players to the reporting area, come to a stop, and report the foul.

'Halcyon' and 'reproof' in one sentence, my, my.

Don't worry: I pick my spots, and only for those who ought to know better. ;)

Pregame Dunk ? Inquiring Minds Want To Know ???
 

Wasn't the pregame dunk whistle, or non whistle, discussed here in the past, or was that on another forum?

Posts by Snaqwells, Camron Rust, Scratch85, JRutledge, and M&M Guy, seem to lean toward not blowing the whistle.

mbyron, and LDUB, seem to lean toward blowing the whistle.

I'm leaning toward not blowing the whistle, but I can't find any rulebook, casebook, or manual citation to back up my opinion.

Anybody got any pertinent citations, or is the lack of a citation, as implied by mbyron, that leads us to treating the pregame dunk like any other foul, be it personal, or technical? And based on mbyron's, and LDUB's, posts, are we also going to blow the whistle for administrative type technical fouls, i.e., player not in the book, wrong number in the book, excess time out, player participating after being removed from the game for disqualification, etc.

Can we explore this further?

I would say don't blow the whistle before the game.

If a disqualified player is participating wouldn't you have to blow the whistle and signal to stop the clock?

Disqualified Player Participating, Whistle ???
 

Maybe? Maybe not? I can see this situation happening a lot of different ways, and it's never happened to me. I can see the table crew either talking to an official during a dead ball, or sounding the horn during an appropriate time, and then, if an official decides to make the ball dead with his whistle, talking to an official. I really don't see an official recognizing this during a live ball situation, unless it's some kind of really memorable player. If I recognize this while the ball is live, I'm going to sound the whistle to stop the game, but I'm probably going to double check with the table crew first before I penalize with a technical foul. In all cases the ball would be probably be dead when I make a decision to penalize with a technical foul. I'm not sure if I would blow the whistle, or not. I guess I have to have it happen to me in my game to figure out what I would do.

When I wrote my post, I seem to recall thinking that the question concerned technical fouls called on players or bench personnel during the game. I blow my whistle for those.