Officiating Other Sports??

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

The tin foil event? Was it sponsored by Reynolds Aluminum?

Seriously though, I would be curious what type of officiating is done at fencing bouts. Is it done like boxing, where "judges" determine there is a point scored for each proper blow landed? Isn't a lot of that done electronically now?

I can't say how it's done now as I'm far removed from the sport, but back then you were basically judging who had the "right of way". The way it was explained to me was that there are four possible outcomes in a fencing bout:

• I'm alive and laughing over your bleeding corpse
• I'm alive but you're alive too
• You're dead but I'm dead too
• I'm dead and you're laughing over my bleeding corpse

To maximize the first two and minimize the second two outcomes they came up with the concept of "right of way". That means that once I begin my attack (can be extending the blade to the opponent, beating the opponent's blade aside to get it out of the way, etc - think of it as the habitual shooting motion in that once it starts you know what's coming next) the opponent has to defend themself first by either retreating, parrying, or otherwise letting the attack end. Once that attack "action" has ended the defender then can begin his own action (riposte) or wait to receive a second attack.

Judges interpret the movements of the fencers and determine in the case of a double touch (two lights coming on the machine you mention) who, if anyone, had the "right of way" and if there were single, compound, or multiple actions taking place.

A typical explanation may be something like "There was an attack from my left, a parry/riposte from my right, followed by a continuation of the initial attack from my left". In this example the point would be awarded to the right since they took the right of way from the initial attacker with a parry, then attacked themselves (riposte) without the initial attacker defending themselves.

You could also get into things like "stop thrusts" which are an attempt to jab an attacker (who has the right of way) before they get a chance to land their attack in time.

The machines help but you still need someone to interpret the action. Saber fencing was a hoot before they wussyfied it with electronics. You used to have head judge and two judges behind each fencer (total of 5). You'd wack someone and, if you had a really nice flexible blade, would achieve a nice loud "Thwack" that caused welts like you've been tortured (just think, before the advent of masks folks used to do this with no headgear - dueling scars were thought to be very macho). The head judge would call a halt when they think a blow was landed, describe the action, then poll the judges. There was some acting involved if you really got nailed but didn't show any reaction, trying to make the judges think the attack didn't really hit. If the point wasn't awarded you could then yell out in pain (you could also yell out if the point was awarded but you got more cool points if you could bluff them).

Fun stuff but it did a number on my knees (the actual fencing, not judging).

[BillyMac]

Rufus: Did you ever see this guy fence? He's the only famous fencer that I know.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

He's the only famous fencer that I know.

Don't know this one?

Being an official in three sports (football, basketball, and slow-pitch softball), I sometimes get asked to officiate stuff at parties that sometimes can be a bit tawdry. Boy, those bikini-clad oil wrestling chicks can be fun to officiate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I sometimes get asked to officiate stuff at parties that sometimes can be a bit tawdry. Boy, those bikini-clad oil wrestling chicks can be fun to officiate.

"Ref Ump Welsch, I served with Mark Padgett, I knew Mark Padgett, Mark Padgett was a friend of mine. Ref Ump Welsch, you're no Mark Padgett".

[coach41]

Rufus,

I would have never expected to meet a former fencing official in basketball officiating forum!

I was a fencer in high school for three years (though one year was cut short due to injury). I was never all that good though I made it to our "All-City" tournament in my junior year. I was eliminated in the first round but hung tough against one of the top fencers in our league. That garnered me the "Most Improved Player" award from my coach. My coach was actually a former Olympic champion fencer. One of my teammates was Olga Chernyak who got a scholarship to fencing power Penn State and was a Division I individual champion her sophomore year.

Check out my team in my senior year:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/smcoach...ths-fen_92.jpg

My former coach asked me officiate fencing a few years back but the matches were in the afternoon when I was still working.

Thanks to you, I remember a lot of how the officials handled our matches back in high school. When I think back to it, it was pretty interesting that the matches were stopped by the official to figure out the scoring.

Imagine if this were applied to basketball:

Whistle blow and players stop

Officials announces to all players:

Player drove baseline
Defender stepped in and clipped offensive player on hip
Therefore the call is a BLOCK!

Thanks for the memories of my high school days. I can't remember any matches that stood out but those were some interesting days!

[Rufus]

Coach41
Tried to send an IM but it didn't work for some reason.

Thanks for the post, it's nice to meet a fellow, if former for us both, blade handler. I fenced mostly foil but dabbled in epee and saber enough to realize that I didn't like either one.

I fenced with a brother combo who graduated Penn State as well. Highlight of my career was beating one of them in an open tournament (only to have his brother annihilate me in the next bout). Oh well, fame is fleeting on the strip, or something.

Take care and thanks for the photo. I've got some hanging around somewhere that I'll have to dig up now.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by coach41

Check out my team in my senior year:

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/smcoach...ths-fen_92.jpg

And you're the one on the far right?

[coach41]

Mark - Far right?? I'm Definitely not the girl.

Our head coach is the guy in dark trench coat. To the left of the head coach is the very TALL GUY. To the left of the TALL GUY is me.

[coach41]

Rufus,

Forgot to respond to you as well. It is indeed good to see a fellow fencer out there. While not a well known sport, there are a ton of fencers out there. In high school, I think they only had foil so that's what I did for three seasons.

In some ways, I wish I would have stuck with fencing a little more. After high school, I took to basketball and have stayed with it since. I play a little golf and badminton along the way.

I still have my old fencing equipment that I purchased back in high school (better than using the school provided stuff). I pulled out the foil a few years back and put on my Zorro costume for Halloween.