This is not a definition, but merely an example. It was not an accidental whistle until the official declared it to be one. In the OP, a improper backcourt call serves the game better than an accidental whistle call. I have no problem giving the ball to blue. If you need an explanation based on the rules, this is it.

"Why does blue get the ball?"

"The call was over and back."

"But we didn't......."

"Blue ball"

So, in 5.8.3 SIT E (b), your conversation would go like this:

"Why am I getting a time out?"

"The call was a time out was granted."

"But we didn't......."

"Time out, white. Full or 30 coach?"

Good luck with the rest of that conversation too. You know what an accidental/inadvertant whistle is, even without a written definition of that term. You're simply looking for an excuse to put your feelings of how you think the rules should be, above how the rules are actually written.

Too bad.

Apples and oranges

Assuming I believe that the coach actually did not intend to call a timeout, neither side would be properly served by shoving one down his throat. The OP is a totally different matter.

If you want to put it that way, it's not really that hard to find an excuse in this case.

"A player or a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule."

That statement alone makes me comfortable giving the ball to blue.

I don't believe that the NFHS can be any clearer than this:

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 12: A1 is passing the ball to A2 in the frontcourt. The pass is deflected by B1 and is in the air when the official erroneously blows the whistle and grants a time-out request by (a) Team A's head coach, or (b) Team B's head coach. RULING: In (a) and (b), even though there was no player control and the ball was not dead, the time-out is entitled to be used since it was granted. The time-out once granted cannot be revoked and is charged to the appropriate team. The stoppage should be treated as an accidental whistle by the official and play shall resume at the point of interruption. Team A, which was in team control, is entitled to a throw-in at a spot nearest to where the ball was located (last in contact with a player or the court) when the stoppage occurred. (4-36-1, 2a; 5-8-3; 7-4-4)

Oh? In both cases, the official blew the whistle to stop play, mistakenly thinking one thing had happened when actually nothing happened. In the OP, you are advocating allowing a mis-application of a rule (the backcourt violation) to fit your definition of "fair" (giving it to blue because they were about to get it).

So, what's <B>your</B> definition of an accidental whistle, within the context of the rules, and what case plays do you use to back it up?

That's all this argument really is about, an "excuse"? It's even easier to find the reason to give it back to white.

Actually, this statement backs my point about giving it back to white. The intent of the putting the accidental whistle phrase in the POI rule is to remove any judgement about who would've, should've, could've gotten the ball, and just give it back to the team in control at the time of the whistle. (Or, of course, if no team control, then AP.) Looks pretty cut-and-dried from a rule intent, doesn't it? Nevada has included NFHS case plays that expand on the intent of the rule on POI after an accidental whistle.

The NCAA and Fed. rules on POI are almost exactly the same, with the only difference being NCAA also includes the women's penalty of a TI by the offended team for an excessive TO. So while we sometimes have to be careful about comparing rule sets, it's pretty easy in this case. The NCAA also includes a definition of an Inadvertant Whistle (4-39-1): "An inadvertent whistle occurs any time an official blows the whistle as an oversight and does not have a call to make." That looks like an easy transition to Fed. rules, since it fits in well with how the case plays handle accidental whistles.

For the last time, I don't disagree it's a shame blue didn't get the ball, because the official's screwup prevented their apparent easy layup. But the rule on POI is very clear, and the only arguments against it are not based on the rule itself, but on extrapolations from other rules, or even purposely mis-calling a play to get the "desired" result. It's not our job to make calls to fit our definition of fair, but to make calls based on the rules.

If this discussion is really about what calls would be made in a camp setting, or rec league setting vs. an actual sanctioned game, that's not what I'm discussing. I'm only pointing out the rule, and we can never go wrong following the rules. What's set aside or ignored in lower-level games is another discussion.

NO!! NO!! NO!! There is specific rule that covers this situation and unfortunately White is awarded a designated spot throw-in.

MTD, Sr.

Maybe that's my problem - I haven't used big red letters. :D

You Can Say That Again ...
 

Amen.

And We All Love Him For It ...
 

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. has never been known to fly under the radar. He always says what he means, and he always means what he says. You always know exactly where he stands on an issue. No if, ands, buts, ors, or nors, about it.

That's why I changed one of my plays names. I named it "Hoof Hearted" after the famous horse.

YouTube - Hoof Hearted wins!

Are we really talking about administering a rule - which is obvious - or about what may come as a result? Sometimes we have to "get our hands dirty" and in this case it should be a lesson learned...unless the official takes the easy way out and begins to develop this action as a habit. Nevada, M&M and others have done a great job of breaking down the rule. That being the case, it seems like we are trying to find some wiggle room so all hell doesn't break lose.

I had a partner blow an inadvertant whistle, on a phantom shot clock violation, in a college game...in overtime! The arrow was pointing to the team with the lead. My partner had that "what did I do?" look on his face and was hesitant to go talk to the coaches. Knowing it would be a longer conversation if he did it, I went and told the coaches what we had and what we were going to do. Our ONLY saving grace was there was 5.4 on the game clock and the team that was losing was down by too much to come back (they ran out of steam in regulation). If the game had been close, we would have needed security to get us out of there.

Ironically, the guy who made this call was full of confidence and talking (too much) on the ride there and in the locker room during pregame. On the ride home...not so much :D

I say it should be white's ball, let the blue coach act how he may and we may possibly be going home early once we remove the blue coaching staff!

Wow, Jim, I'm not sure you're the one on this board with the very most experience, and highest level of play under your belt, but you sure are right up there near the top, and you've totally been ignored by everyone. Well, don't take it too personally. I listened (for what that's worth!).