NBA Refs Possible Strike
 

Put up on ESPN.com
Marc Stein: NBA referees expect to be locked out on Oct. 1 - ESPN

The lead negotiator and spokesman for NBA referees announced Thursday that the referees expect to be locked out when exhibition play starts Oct. 1 after contract negotiations with the league broke down this week.

Note that a lockout and a strike are completely different.

The difference is in who is preventing work from being done. In a strike, the workers refuse to work. In a lockout, the employer refuses to let the workers work.

Cool! David Stern has my phone number. :)

Rarely do I support pro sport unions of any kind, and I'm not real sure which side I'd take here. However, in this case, these individuals are actual league employees under contract only with the league and all are based upon the same pay scale. Players are under contract to their team with no pay scale and actually breach that contract (usually) when they go on strike. Also, the discussion here is in regard to what percentage of a CUT, rather than an increase, is coming down. So the issues are a bit different than usual.

I'm a right to work/free market guy, so if the union refuses the contract and is locked out, I say if you get picked up, go work. But if the NBA folded, that wouldn't bother me a bit either!

From what I understand, there are about 40-50 D-League and 20-30 D1 college refs were asked to be the replacements. It will be $1000 to 1300 per game with travel, hotel, and meal.

I wonder how Leon Wood and Bill Kennedy feel about having replacement refs take their spots when they did the same thing?

I talked to one of my friends tonight who works in the D-league. The figures above are correct.

If the lockout lasts into November this is going to cause a significant problem. There aren't enough DL officials to handle the season and even if there were some of them have good D1 schedules. Also, the DL season starts in November so someone will have to officiate those games.

I'm sure there will be many people who would love to work...until they get in over their heads.

I wish I could be one of them!

I'm with you on this (that sound you hear is my grandfather rolling over in his grave), although this is one line I would not cross.

I was thinking about this again and there may some D1 officials who turn the NBA down. Think about it, make less money and possibly piss off someone (the assigner) who you will be working for in the long run. I don't know, maybe the NBA has contacted some young D1 officials who have at least pro-am experience.

D1 refs who were called were told to block out their college assignments. The NBA would assign games around their D1 games. The feeling among the D1 refs that were called is that the NBA would assign games near the college assignments to make it a "win-win" situation.

That would be a win-win situation, but I don't think that is going to work out all the time. Remember, some of these D1 officials barely have time to breath let alone an off day to work the Knicks/Celtics. Realistically, it isn't going to work as easy as scheduling games near their college games.

$1300 seems like quite a pay cut for a lot of them too.

At Least That's What I Heard ...
 

Are the Knicks still in the NBA? The way that they've been playing the past few years, I heard that they were invited to be the only male team allowed to play in the WNBA, the WNBA figuring that some of the women's teams would be able to get a few easy wins against the Knickerbockers.

Exactly.

So they take a NBA game over a game that will pay them more AND they could lose the next NBA game at any time if a new contract is signed AND it could piss their college assigner off in the process AND coach "X" is pissed because he has a $million riding on each victory without his "big dog" refs on the game.

It isn't likely.

What does David Stern make per day? I know that his annual salary is quite impressive.
It seems that the NBA referees are really on the low end of this billion dollar industry. The owners and players get a nice chunk of cash, and it seems that the league staff does well too.
$1,000 to $1,300 for working an NBA game just seems awfully low to me.

Whatever it is, I bet is way less than even the lowliest bench rookie on the cheapest paying team.

The Rich Get Richer, The Poor Get Richer ...
 

You would lose the bet.

Randolph Morris, the lowest paid player, on the Atlanta Hawks, the cheapest paying team, will make $855,189 in 2009-10. The NBA minimum for a rookie in 2009-10 is $457,588, for a player with one year's experience, $736,420.

In 1996, David Stern received a five-year deal worth $35 million. I can't find his salary for his most recent contract.

Hmm. What are the odds that Stern makes less than $400,000 per year?

Just a quick google search shows reports, unverified, that he's in the 5-10 million range.

Just think - Stern makes that much and he can't even dunk. Plus - his lifetime scoring average is 0 ppg. :eek:

The biggest "win" in this situation for the college officials is the chance to get picked up full time. Because working full time in the NBA beats D1 (at least with pay, benefits and schedule... you can debate the quality of basketball), so if these guys take a few games and impress some people, they might get the call-up. That is why some of these guys might take these games, particularly younger officials.

Never cross a line.
 

The biggest "win" for any college official is to have the integrity to refuse to work as a replacement during a strike.

I find the eagerness with which some would work NBA games during a lockout or strike to be repulsive. The replacement officials would be paid well, and on a scale negotiated by the union through collective bargaining. The pay was set at the bargaining table, where the employees' only leverage is the right to strike. Now, because they're using that leverage, you'd undercut the very tool that allowed you to be paid the wage you'd make as a replacemente official?

There is nothing as despicable as a scab.

That's not true... see above.

How do you know this? Perhaps my knowledge of labor unions isn't up to speed, but for someone who doesn't join the union (i.e. a replacement), it doesn't compute in my head that they would be bound to the union rules.


And finally, the officials are locked out; this is not a strike.

Not even a child molester? OOPS! Wrong thread.

For someone who has such a strong opinion, I find it amusing that you have no clue about the situation. No one is striking. It is a lockout.

Plus, that type of attitude is, for the most part, why GM and Chrysler are where they are today. Do you really think that is where you want all US companies? You can strike and fight for higher wages for a couple of years until the company essentially goes bankrupt and shuts down the plant and moves it to a place where unions don't strongarm the company for wages higher than the work is worth.

I'd request that all refrain from any "labor v. management" discussion. We've been down that road before and it doesn't end well.

If you want to discuss it, take it somewhere else.

Sorry bob. I removed my post.

You have well established D1 officials and younger D1 officials still on the rise.

An established D1 official would more be taking a pay cut as a rookie NBA official. They would essentially start over because NBA players just don't care about what they (the officials) did at the NCAA level. Plus, that veteran official might not take too kindly to Baron Davis cussing him out - I speak from experience (I didn't realize how much of a cry baby Baron was). There is also their primary jobs to think about. If a veteran official is close to retiring from their primary job and moving to the NBA would be a pay cut, where is the positive for them?

A up and coming D1 official likely has a different set of circumstances. First, there is no guarantees with this labor deal from day to day so they could be flying high - and to Atlanta for a game - one day and calling up their college assigner the next. It wouldn't be as easy for a young official to get those games back as it would a veteran official. Also, the job situation could prevent a younger official from taking the plunge.

Now, I have a friend who is destined for the NBA as of right now. He is going to be doing some D1 this year, but his goal is to go to the NBA and he has been working in the D-league for a couple of years. He has his own business so his day job isn't an issue - I've been joking (but serious) with him lately about becoming his partner because he isn't going to have time to run his business. For him the D1 stuff is gravy. I know another guy on the east coast who is rising fast in D1 and the D-league is gravy. Two different guys with two different issues to consider.

Once all those decisions are made then the fallout begins - and I would love to have stock in a phone company. Lower level games will have to be filled, but there is one snag. A deal could be signed at any time and things will have to be undone.

Shoot, an agreement could have been reached while I took the time to type all this out. :D

Update....
 

Refs lockout 'imminent and unavoidable'

Sheridan: Spokesman for NBA referees says lockout 'imminent' - ESPN

32 million dollar referee budget?

That averages about to 561k per offcial. Granted the 32 million includes travel expenses, per diems, etc. Even still if you take the 57 guys and pay em all 200k a year thats only 11 million dollars. I'm thinking some NBA officials are making more bank than we think

Salaries are only a portion of expenses paid by any organization to employees. Benefits cost the NBA as well. Plus travel expenses. And equipment for officials, including all of the stuff they do online with video review. Add on to that the employees that evaluate and support the officials for things like HR and travel.

And also, others have stated that some make 300k-400k. Add to that playoff pay.

I'm sure I still missed dozens of expenses.


That budget doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Who are some of the people on the short list to work the games if they go are locked out.

How much did you think? The rookie salary is more than $100k.

One of the things the league wants is to squeeze out some of the officials who make the most money. You could pay 4 officials for what some of the old guys make alone.

Check the D-League and WNBA rosters, that'll give you a good portion of the names right there.

I think they should have the coaches ref. That'll teach 'em. ;)

http://www.talkingproud.us/ImagesPho...e/CoachRef.jpg

On PTI today Tony K and Bob Ryan talked about the situation. They reported Shaq said the NBA needs to pay the refs and the players were afraid someone might get "hurt" with inexperienced refs. The guys proceeded to talk about how GOOD NBA refs are - yeah, the refs get criticism and blow a call every now and again. But, overall, they're the best in the business and do a great job!

Then of course a GEICO commercial came on with a caveman dressed as a football ref - nice! :rolleyes:

The Associated Press released a story today that replacement refs are starting to be trained next week in New Jersey. It said the NBA has been interviewing for over a week. Apparently, first year officials make about $150,000 and long time veterans around $550,000 annually. Apparently, the two sides were fine with salaries but not with pensions and severance plans. Currently, referees receive a retirement bonus of up to $550,000 on top of pension benefits that can reach as high at $2,000,000. Also, the league wanted to tighten up travel allowances and per diems.

Heck - I'd do that job for half of that. ;)

I can't say for sure, because I'm not anywhere near knowledgeable about the facts here, but I'd bet a lot that this is not true. Why not? The league can get rid of whoever it wants. It isn't that difficult even with the union. Why have a lockout over a few guys?

This is about money. They don't want to slash other areas and aren't getting the revenue going forward they expected.

We don't really even need to talk about this do we? I said "one of the things" not the only thing. Officials like Dick Bevetta (sp?) and Bennett Salvatore make a lot of money now and stand to make A LOT more whenever they decide to retire. Read the articles online and they mention the lump sum payment they (it didn't say them specifically) will get when they retire, plus their pension. Sure they can get rid of them. That would be called retirement because they have their years in and as it stands right now the amount of money they would make is one of the hang ups to get a new deal done.

You still want to make that bet?

Count me in
 

let me have one of those NBA scab jobs, I'll take it after all. I mean, look at the advantages: I get to make good money, but I didn't have to risk anything to get it! And so what if by acting as a replacement I will undermine the people who follow me -- I'm getting mine and that's all that matters! My big break!! I couldnt compete with the guys who I'm replacing, but tweet, tweet, they're out and I'm in. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the gains made by people who are out on the street. This is America, it's a free country! It's my right to take advantage of each and every situation so that I personally benefit. I've seen the light.

Every athletic official has or had the chance to become an NBA or any other professional sports official. There is a proper way for an amateur to get the chance to call an NBA game or any other type professional game. If for some reason a crew does not make it to the game, there are amateur backup officials on call in case of emergency. Get on that list. Otherwise, do the same things the current professional officials did to become a professional official.

All officials, both amateur and professional are thought of as just another expense of doing business. They think that any John Doe off the street can call a game, and should do it for free, and should be thankful just for being given the privilege of calling that amateur or professional game and walking on the court, field, etc. with all the players, coaches, and front office in front of all those fans. They think the honor of hobnobbing and rubbing shoulders with the professional/amateur game is enough pay in itself.

Any of the amateurs who cross the line to work these games, just belittles officials everywhere, both amateur and professional who say that anyone can do that job. Let them try. Let the NBA go grab people off the street to work these games since they feel anyone can do the job. Let the NBA work out a new contract with their own officials, and let the amateurs continue to work and do the exceptional job they do in their leagues, at their level of expertise. Anyone crossing the line is just making an excuse to do so and once again bringing all officials at all levels down.

My response to this would be: do you know and/or like any officials in the NBA? If so, there is a chance that an official you like was once a scab since several of them worked during the last strike/lockout.

A large portion of the officials who will be used are in the d-league and WNBA. They are already professional officials.

Yes I do, and no he didn't.

Spoke to a buddy from the D-League this weekend. He is scheduled to work pre-season games.