Just a quick shout out from the JB Caldwell Camp in Daytona Beach Florida. I am a JV guy from Ohio and decided to invest some time to try to improve. I have some advice for 1, 2 and 3 year guys like myself.

Find out more about this camp and get here next year. I already told JB I will be back.

Hands down the best time / money investment I have ever spent on my officiating career. And it wasnt all that expensive!

Bottom Line....get here.


[Edited by Larks on Jul 18th, 2002 at 12:17 AM]

What about that camp?
 

What is so special about that camp?

Is it a camp with college evaluators or assignors?

Just tell us more about what the camp is all about?

Peace

Re: What about that camp?
 

Well from my perspective I was given a chance to work Varsity level games with instructors on the sidelines helping us during time outs and quarters. The staff included plenty of college refs that know their stuff and are great coaches.

For my session....student to coach ratio....2-1. So for 33 guys we had 15 guys helping us get better. I believe the weekend session will be closer to about 3-1.

Is this a rule camp no. Is this a "get seen" camp...not really. Is this a camp that teaches 3-man mechs, game and clock management. Absolutely. And the schedule wasnt too bad either. I worked 13 games in 5 days.

The best part....every single instructor was there to improve officiating and to help us learn more about working a game.

Bottom Line.....I highly recommend this camp.

Larks

Ok, Larks, glad you got a lot out of it. What other camps have you attended and how did this one compare?

Havent been to others yet so I dont know. I can only give my opinion here that I learned a lot. I'm a 3rd year guy and for me, this was just what I needed to get better. Am I ready for D1 tomorrow....no way. Not even close. Am I better and will I be better this season....absolutely.

The point of my original message is that I recommend this camp. I am a nobody from Ohio so take my recommendation for what its worth. But I promise you that if you came, especially if you are like me and are hungry to learn...you will leave a better official.

3 Person.
 

Lark,

Do you do 3 Person in Ohio or is this one of your first experiences?

Peace

Re: 3 Person.
 

Ohio is 2-man thru JV, 3-man for varsity if there are enough officials to cover it. In Cincinnati, that is all the time - boys and girls.

I can only do 2-man in Ohio until the end of this coming season. Then I am eligible to take the Ohio class 1 test and if I pass, work varsity if my assignors think I am ready.

To answer your question, I have just learned 3-man this summer. Between the NKU team camp (not much teaching), the Mt. St. Joseph team Camp (no teaching at all) and the JB Caldwell / Embry Riddle Camp (lots of teaching), I have worked about thirty 3-man varsity boys games this summer.

I will say this...now that I have worked some 3-man...I am spoiled. I'm looking forward to the day when most of my schedule will be 3-man.

Lark-
Why do you say you are spoiled now that you have done three man? Does it mean that you can be lazier? Or that you do not have to make sure you watch as much, since there are more eyes? Just wondering!

AK ref SE

\

Lazy??? Do you even know me. Man, I am suddenly sorry I started this post.

Of course more eyes = better officiating.

It was a joke
 

Lark,

He was making a joke. He was just giving you some crap. That is why the smiley face ( :D ) was there.

We have fun like that sometimes here.

Peace

Larks-
Sorry if you took offense to my comment! It was not meant in a bad way!

AK ref SE

I guess internet smiley facies weren't covered at this camp. ;)

Yep....missed the smileys.....sorry for the quick trigger. Must have been tired from all the running last week.

Larks

Conditions.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larks

Quote:

Yep....missed the smileys.....sorry for the quick trigger. Must have been tired from all the running last week. Larks

I hope you did not have the hot a$$ gym like we had. We might as well played outside. And the floor was staying extremely wet and the ball. Other than that, good ball.

Peace

Re: Conditions.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by Larks Quote: Yep....missed the smileys.....sorry for the quick trigger. Must have been tired from all the running last week. Larks I hope you did not have the hot a$$ gym like we had. We might as well played outside. And the floor was staying extremely wet and the ball. Other than that, good ball. Peace

Camp was at Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ. 1 College floor, 2 high school floors all under one roof. All AC. Very nice from the aspect. Outside = 95 degrees and humid. Inside....70, cool and dry.

Larks - AC is the fat guy's friend!

Larks
 

My camp was at a HS gym. All other areas of the building was air conditioned. The gyms were not, or at least it did not feel that way. Outside Temp.=98-100, Heat index= over a 100, mainly because of the humidity. Thank God we did not have to do the entire game. We rotated every 10 minutes.

Peace

I worked a shootout this weekend in an old warehouse.

18 minute running halves, game every 50 minutes, 4 games sets saturday, 3 sunday.

It was about 96 outside and much warmer in. They had a few of those big fans, but by the end of the last game each day (especially Saturday) I wanted to passout.

Best part, coach in my 4th game Saturday.

HM: "We want a little extra warm up and half-time, this is my girls' 3rd game and we are tired.

Me: "Sorry, we have to stay on schedule.

HM: "It is our third game today, we are spent."

Me: "Coach, this is my fourth game in a row, and I don't get to sub out, you are crying up the wrong tree."

HM: "So what you're sayign is we don't get any extra time?"

Me: Icy Stare

Larks, I also attended the J B Caldwell camp. I wish I would have known to look for you there. I met a few guys from Ohio. Did we do a game together on Sunday (court 3 at ICI)?

I agree with Larks in that this camp offered a lot of "bang for the Buck". Excelent instruction! For the past three years I have worked on rules knowlege. At this camp rules were not emphasized. I think that rules knowlege by the attendies was a given. What I was impressed with was the emphasis on the "ART" of officiating rather than the "science" of officiating. The philosophy of making the right call in the right situation. I have to admitt that when I first heard some of you like CREW and others talk about this I had a hard time accepting it. I am coming to the realization that if you are a "rule book" official you won't last long.

Clinitions were mostly D1 officials and there were a few "guests" (I'm not going to start name dropping since Larks didn't). OK, I got to break down film with Nolan Fine. There I said it and I'm glad. :) Hey, I was pumped up to be able to have that kind of knowlege to tap into, forgive me.

As far as the pay off for the investment. My association's assignment officer was at the camp. Enough said!

Mike

Oops! I just reread your origional post and realized that you were in the previous session. I must have gotten there the day after you left and spent Friday through Sunday at the camp.

Why?
 

Not really trying to spark a major debate, but why do you feel that way?

Peace

Mike, I agree with you completely. Most "rule book officials" are releatively inexperienced, still learning the ropes. They make calls strictly on the rules. They don't apply advantage/disadvantage, game management skiills or any type of philosophy to their game. You are probably correct that the camp administrators expect rules knowledge to be a given. A quality official has to have a firm, working knowledge of the rules. This basic knowledge is the corner stone of growing into a quality, veteran official.

Quality camps should focus on mechanics and knowing what to call and most importantly, what not to call. Philosophy, game management, and court presence are qualities that should be developed at camp. I don't disagree with those that place a high priority on those. But without a strong understanding of the rules, that official will screw up sooner or later. For example, B1 grabs the backboard and holds on while blocking a shot. obviously, the correct call is a T. But you can't score the basket. And I've read posts where such a proposal was made.

Like you said, camps don't focus on the rules. They expect you to know them when you get there.

Yep, I was there first session. I stayed thru Thursday's camp tourney so I ended up there 6 days. Took off Friday AM.

You're comment about the Art vs. Science of officiating is dead on. Rules wise, the only thing covered was changes in NF for 2002 / 2003.

I didnt want to name drop either. We had college refs (all levels) and prominent Florida refs as clinicians. Everyone that I worked with knew their stuff and was very intereted in helping me improve. I actually got to work 2 games with college refs which was awesome. These are up and coming guys who are all in the SEC system I believe. The things I noticed about those guys....they are smooth. Their mech's are crisp and flawless. Their confidence in their calls and in dealing with players and coaches was strong.

I could go on and on. Again...if you are in your 2nd or 3rd year and know the rules but are wondering whats next.....If you are looking for teachers who are more of a coach than someone worried about you taking their games....If you want to learn game management and how to handle situations....THIS IS YOUR CAMP.

Larks

JB Caldwell Camp
 

Glad you guys enjoyed the camp. If you remember I posted all that information on the board months ago regarding how great that camp really is. Glad I didn't lead anyone astray.

That was my third year instructing at the camp and I really echo the same comments as far as the hard work all the instructors really put into the camp. BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK. No doubt about it.

I remember you Mike Burns. Unfortunately, I only instructed the weekend camp and was unavailable for the first session as I was in my SEC/ACC camp myself during that session so I didn't get to meet you Larks.

Glad it went well for all who attended. Spread the word, that is the only way people will know where to go. It is great to get a good base of fundamentals and knowledge there for the cheap price and then, when you feel your ready, attend a camp with some supervisors.

Best of luck.

Re: Why?
 

Tony said it better than I can, but...

The first three years of officiating I have focused on learning the rules. Now I have to learn how to apply those rules to make the game better. Part of this is understanding game management as well as game flow. (Quote) "The best call of the game may be the one you didn't make." That comment has not set well with me in the past, because I thought "the rules are there to be enforced". And yes they are, but not to the extent that you have game interupters. Obviously I am not saying to throw the book out, but rather to know how and when to apply the intent of the rules, so we can call the best game for the players, coaches and fans.

BBarnaky, thanks for a great camp. I think one of the aspects that make the camp what it is, is the way that you and the other clinitions comunicated with the campers. There was no "big timing" or talking down to the campers, but clear comunication. Real people that love the game and want to help to make better officials.

Thats probably my best character trait!!!
I LOVE THE GAME!!! Glad you had a great time.
Looking forward to doing in again next summer as usual.
No big timing here as that camp is where I got my start and eventually hired into small college and eventually into Divison I as well.
That camp is where I "cut my teeth" so to speak.

Later

PS Watch as much film as you can during your upcoming season. You will be surprised in the results!!!

Re: Re: Why?
 

I believe that this is one of the hardest things to learn as a newer official. I think we all go through the "cop" phase where we try to "get" every little thing because it is in the rule book. A good working knowledge of the rules is very important, but knowing how and when to apply them is even more important. This concept is hard to explain to younger officials so that they will get it and understand. I think you said that officiating is an art rather than a science and that is a great analogy. It is not an exact thing in most cases (if it were, reffing would be much easier) and we have to know how and when to pick our spots.

What tapes? Of yourself from a camp, previous game, something else? This is probably a dumb question or an obvious answer but somebody has to ask the dumb ones. I've not been to a camp yet. All I'm doing is summer legues at the ymca and I probably will not do HS or JR high. I've got kids playing that I enjoy watching. I do want to improve though and this board helps.

Thanks guys, and gals.

Stan,

One of the most valuable tools for those of us trying to improve (I think that includes all of us) is watching film of our work. You just don't realize some of the idiosyncracies you have and/or how you look on the court. Your run, stance, facial expressions, etc. It may be hard to do working rec league but when you start working JH or HS or whatever get a tape every chance you get and watch yourself. It really is amazing how fast you can correct something once you see yourself do it. I usually get my tapes by giving a blank to the athletic director along with some postage (maybe a SASE) and ask them to make me a copy. Always after we have had a good game and usually after they were victorious, for obvious reasons. There are other ways of getting film, i.e., taking an extra vcr, having friends go and film, etc. but that is what works for me.

I can agree with that.
 

Well in my first 3 years, I tried to learn it all. I had to, my schedule was too good or too advanced not to. I had to learn the rules, mechanics and game management skills right off the bat. It is great to know the rules, but no one will know it if your "presentation" is not there. You have to have everything together, down to the way you run the pregame meeting. That is your first opportunity to show what kind of official you are. If you cannot do that, you do not have the opportunity to get that "first impression" back.

IMHO, rules do not come until you have seen many of the things live and in color. You might understand what goaltending is, but if you have never seen it, it might be much harder to call. That is one of the biggest reasons around here, evaluators and assignor judge you depending on what level of officiating you do. Class AA(Larger Schools) Officials are held in higher regard than Class A Officials. Because if you have never seen the game above the rim, it can be very difficult to call one. No matter how good you know the rules.

Peace

Excuse me stewardess, could you pass me one of those small, white bags?
 

I think I'm gonna be sick! <img src="http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/bnifiles/face.gif">

Game Tapes
 

First of all one needs to learn how to watch tape and break a game down which is another thread we could start. Second unless I have a tv game I take a vcr and plug it into one of the teams cameras and thats how I get my tape. Essentially you need: vcr, bag, rca audio and video cords, vcr tapes and a thats about it.

Been doing it now for 2 seasons. Amazing what you can learn.

J.B. Caldwell Camp
 

How many officials were at this camp? I heard this was a good camp also.... Were they all able to fit in the room even with J.B.'s big head?

That is a good thing.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

I think I'm gonna be sick! <img src="http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/bnifiles/face.gif">

Good, you might just lighten up. :rolleyes:

Peace

Re: Excuse me stewardess, could you pass me one of those small, white bags?
 

<img src="http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/bnifiles/alert.gif">

I liked Tony's so much I'm testing out one of my own.

Re: Excuse me stewardess, could you pass me one of those small, white bags?
 

ROTFLMAO!!
Damn,will you and mick quit it.I just had to add a truss to that list of the things that us ol' folks need!

And the Slappy for best animated GIF goes to...
 

...whoever made this thing!

<img src="http://www.webdeveloper.com/animations/bnifiles/commentary.gif">

Re: And the Slappy for best animated GIF goes to...
 

You wouldn't believe how hard I looked for something, anything, that was throwing up to reply to Rutledge's conceited post! That's great Dan! :D

BTW, this one's for you!

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/bart-moon.gif

I think today, a new age has been born on this forum! :)

Re: Re: And the Slappy for best animated GIF goes to...
 

http://www.webdeveloper.com/animatio...s/mousemad.gif

Re: And the Slappy for best animated GIF goes to...
 

Now just add a pair of shoes and a pair of pants, and we're set for life!

J.B. Caldwell Camp
 

No reply on earlier post, just curious if J.B is always so full of himself.

Re: J.B. Caldwell Camp
 

I didnt feel that was the case at all. J.B. could have gone on and on about his success but he didnt. J.B. could have name dropped all day....but he didnt. J.B could have charged more money than he does. Did you know they do zero marketing for that camp? All word of mouth. Did you know that for the first time in 7 camps J.B. finally put his name on the shirts to match the name of the camp?

Full of himself.....no way. Maybe what you saw was confidence and credibility. Try not to get confused there Doc.

Larks

Re: J.B. Caldwell Camp
 

My session had 30 campers and 15 staff. I heard the second session had about 60 campers but I dont know how many staff.

J.B. Caldwell Camp
 

As you wrote in an earlier post, "you don't know me" so don't jump to a conclusion of my confusion", You were at the first 3 days not the last three. Secondly if you read my first post I wasn't even at the camp, I talked to some people who were. The times I have run across him he has been quite big headed, so I wanted to see if it was that way at his camp also. You offer a different opinion and I respect that.

I was considering on going to this camp but the few times I have run across J.B all I heard was "I did this on my own, got no help from anyone" over and over again.. When questioned on a rule he was very defensive, like how could he be wrong.

So I am glad it appears this didn't come out in the first session....

Re: J.B. Caldwell Camp
 

Good Point.

Bottom line....You should go. You dont spend that much time listening to J.B. anyway. Most of the time is on the floor working with several different staff members.

Larks

Just for the record, JB is like a mentor to me and mentors and tutors so many others in their officiating careers. I have the utmost respect for him and what he is all about. Absolutely on of the few people that I can count on one hand that I absolutely and totally respect for what he stands for and does. He's not perfect, nor am I or anyone else for that matter, but he is one if not the most genuine individual I know in basketball officiating.

Thanks for listening to my response of this unfair and NOT constructive criticism. I don't understand why anyone would post on this board and talk bad about other officials. We are all one big "family/fraternity" no matter what level we are at and we all represent each other. Its no wonder why officials don't get treated with respect due to the lack of respect officials give to each other and the constant bad mouthing that takes place.

Enjoy the journey.

BB....very well said. - Larks

I could not agree more.
 

Very well said.

Peace

J.B. Caldwell Camp and Critisism
 

Your quote below shows you obviously had a good experience regarding J.B....

[QUOTEJust for the record, JB is like a mentor to me and mentors and tutors so many others in their officiating careers. [/QUOTE]

YOUR quite below may be why we really don't get treated with respect. I made a comment on how I was treated and how I felt. It was not bad mouthing. This is the impression I was given in the two times I have seen J.B. He came across very cocky full of himself.I wanted to see if others besides people I know personally had the same experience or if I may have just caught him on two bad days. Don't read into it more than that. Also just because someones opinion is differnet than yours, doesn't make it wrong. Its all in your own perspective. Maybe thats why we don't get respect, because all of us don't value others opinions, just because they are different than our own.

[QUOTEThanks for listening to my response of this unfair and NOT constructive criticism. I don't understand why anyone would post on this board and talk bad about other officials. We are all one big "family/fraternity" no matter what level we are at and we all represent each other. Its no wonder why officials don't get treated with respect due to the lack of respect officials give to each other and the constant bad mouthing that takes place.[/QUOTE]

So I hope I am clear to you now... Thanks...

Re: J.B. Caldwell Camp and Critisism
 

No offense, Doc, but here is the comment you made:


Now you may have meant it tongue-in-cheek, but whatever you intended, it is not a comment on how you were treated and how you felt. This is a barely-veiled insult (unless, as I said, you said it jokingly and we all missed the point). If your comment is not bad-mouthing, I don't know what would fit that description. So I don't think you can try to claim the high road here. Publicly saying that this official or that guy is conceited or whatever is inappropriate. As always, just my opinion.

Chuck

Chuck good points..
 

Chuck I should have used the smiley face, since it was meant tongue and cheek. To be honest it was also a feeler to see if some would come running to J.B's defense. Probably a bad way to do it... For that I apologize.

As far as J.B goes my impression in the few times I have run across him is not good, as a I said previously. An item I heard about the camp that went along with my thoughts was the way J.B handled his into and control of camp. I was told by several campers that he was very short with people and would only allow people to applaude his clinicians when he told them they could and only when he chopped his hand like chopping the clock. He also told them how many claps each person would get. Sounded pretty much like a control freak, for lack of a better word.

As with my experience as far as rules goes, when he was wrong about the situation in my case he wouldn't admit it, and in fact told me I was wrong, when he in fact was wrong. When I took the rule book to show him, I even did it privately to not embarrass him in front of others, he blew me off and tried to weasel out of it.

So needless to say I don't have ha good impression, and wanted to see what others felt......

You guys say that the camp is word of mouth. Is there a website where I can read about it?

The dont have a website. You can reach JB Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ in Daytona Beach Florida. Or e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll give you JB's e-mail address.

ScottParks, I always have camp brochures for the camp as well. So next summer I will post something again to remind all who is interested.........

Just a follow up to the earlier disccussion:

The clap/applause thing done at the Daytona camp is a tradition that was started and if an individual understood that, one would be enlightened that is has nothing to do with a "controlling" nature but just something that the specific camp does that is different.

It still amazes me when a person is wrong they don't want to own up to it and apologize but instead defend their remarks for what they did based on one experience and other people's hearsay information. I would just say, "you know what I goofed up I apologize I could have handled the situation differently." Oh well. Enough said.

Not all of us can be objective, look in the mirror, and be honest when one makes a mistake or, when watching tape screws up a rule, a situation, or misses a play. This is no different than the earlier critical comments made in this thread.

Ba BA Barnaky
 

QUOTE]Originally posted by Doc Lane
___________________________________________
[B]Chuck I should have used the smiley face, since it was meant tongue and cheek. To be honest it was also a feeler to see if some would come running to J.B's defense. Probably a bad way to do it... For that I apologize.
__________________________________________________ _

If you try reading you might see I did apologize. As far as owning up. I did.... I posted in a way that was inappropriate and I appologized, so mister high almighty, what do you have to say now.

As far as one experience,WHO SAID ONE, read again BABAbanaky I said the FEW TIMES, so that would be more than one. Also it was a few, again more than one people that told me directly about their experience. So not hearsay by one person.

Sorry that some may have a different opinion than you. Again, mine and their impression was not good. Wanted to see how others felt. I respect your feelings and thoughts about J.B. Sorry you can't do the same for others..

Larksy,glad to hear you had a great camp,enjoyed yourself, and learned some things and met some people that might help you in your future officiating career.That's all that matters.

Woody

BBarnaky
 

The man has the right to not like the camp. If he had a bad experience, it does not mean that everyone did. His comments might have been out there, but he does not have to agree that everything the camp had to offer was positive. It might help the next person to decide if they wanted to attend the camp. Not really that big of a deal.

Peace

Enough said. JRutledge he didn't attend the camp just for the record.

Another Camp
 

I did not attend his camp, but I was at another where he was a clinician. That is where I was exposed to him.

Enough said......

He still does not have to agree.
 

The fact still remains, if he does not like the guy for whatever reason, he might not recommend his camp. He does have a right to that opinion. And if that differs from others so be it. I know for a fact all the camps I have attended that not everyone was happy with the camp or the people running them. That is just the way it is.

Peace

Excellent point. I concur respectively.

JR,

Yeah, it was exactly the camp I was looking for. Something to build on without the pressure of impressing an assignor. You ever hear of the "AH HA" light? My AH Ha light was going off about 3 or 4 times a day. I'm going back next year because I know I could still pick up more.

Hey on that intro class I was telling you about....I am gonna help that guy out. I'll keep you posted.

Back to camp, one thing I also found refreshing was that they also had a most improved "senior" official award. They called it the "Old Guy" Award. At 33, I wasnt eligible but maybe if you can make it next year you can come in and grab the title! :)

Larks - Veteran in Training

Sounds like the intro class is gonna be a helluva lot easier for you after the great camp you had.I'm glad you made up your mind to do it.
Btw,if I win an "old Guy Award",I hope it's a shotgun.I can use it on the buzzards that keep circling me every time I go out my front door.:D

[/QUOTE]Sounds like the intro class is gonna be a helluva lot easier for you after the great camp you had.I'm glad you made up your mind to do it.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'll be in more of an assitant role. I dont plan on actually lecturing on anything other than perhaps a quick talk on what I have gone thru / am going thru breaking in. Something along the lines of just because A) they found a striped shirt and whistle at Dick's, B) they took the class and C) they read the books that doesnt mean they will be a varsity ref or even get games for that matter. You hear all the time and I even complained on this board about "shortage". I think it will be good to hear from a 3rd year guy on the subject rather than a 30 year guy.

I'm actually looking forward to another cruise through the rules in a class setting. I take the Ohio Class 1 test (varsity)next spring. I have to think that camps this summer plus helping in this class plus a full season of high school games will certainly help.

Congratulations,Andy.You are now,at an early stage in your career,officially giving something back to the game already!What you are doing is important as hell,if we want to keep new officials.The guy that you're helping deserves an "Attaboy",too.

daytona camp
 

I had a great time at the camp. I went to the first and second sessions. Also, I was Andy's partner for the first
game.

I learned a great deal. I feel like I gained 1 to 2 years
worth of experience. Everybody at the camp was great. They were friendly and very helpful.

Re: daytona camp
 

My condolences!!Hope you get well soon. :D
PS- It sounds like it's a very good camp.

Re: Re: daytona camp
 

Hey we werent that bad!! Bug was complaining about his shoulders but I didnt know why since we mostly ran! Hmmm :)

Did you guys feel like this?

http://i.dslr.net/avatars/656186.gif