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-   -   OK - I admit it. Reffing is much harder than I thought it would be. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/54113-ok-i-admit-reffing-much-harder-than-i-thought-would.html)

dsqrddgd909 Sun Jul 26, 2009 06:32pm

OK - I admit it. Reffing is much harder than I thought it would be.
 
Thanks everyone for all of your advice.

I have now reffed some youth rec and men's rec.

Things I've noticed or been pointed out to me:

1. Signals need work - particularly hand up when blowing whistle.
2. Having a hard time officiating play in the paint or at the basket, particularly on fast breaks. It's difficult for me to see/decide what's incidental and what's a foul. Add in I am missing contact with the body. I think I have a good angle, but maybe I don't.
3. Referee the defense. I have missed some travels, carrying the ball and double dribbles. I'm too focused on the defense I guess.

Any tips are welcome.

SAK Sun Jul 26, 2009 08:21pm

When I just started out, I found traveling very hard to pick up. It just takes time. Hang in there, make sure that you know the rules, and control the game.

Attend a camp if there is one still in your area.

Good luck

BillyMac Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:12pm

Just Make Sure That You're Alone ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 616964)
Signals need work - particularly hand up when blowing whistle.

This may sound silly, but it works: Watch a basketball game on television with a whistle in your mouth. Sound the whistle, and give the appropriate hand signal (hand, fist, or held ball) in response to what you see on the television. It works. I promise.

budjones05 Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:57pm

It hard for the first years, but it will come natural. Work hard, Hustle, call the obvious, trust your partners, and be a good person.

wanja Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 616964)
Thanks everyone for all of your advice.


3. Referee the defense. I have missed some travels, carrying the ball and double dribbles. I'm too focused on the defense I guess.

Any tips are welcome.

Referee the defense (first) so that you can determine if the defender did anything wrong. If not, he cannot be penalized even if there is substantial contact. Two tips might help:

1. Position your self to see ball handler, defender and space in between (get a good angle).
2. Stay far enough away from the play to see both feet and upper body without having to move your head or feet.

grunewar Mon Jul 27, 2009 06:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 616964)
1. Signals need work - particularly hand up when blowing whistle.

Sounds like me when I first started.

A senior official told me basically, your arm is just like a balloon - every time you put air in your whistle your arm has got to go up for something - either violation or a foul. Helped me.

mick Mon Jul 27, 2009 06:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 616964)
3. Referee the defense. I have missed some travels, carrying the ball and double dribbles.

How do you know this?

dsqrddgd909 Mon Jul 27, 2009 07:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick (Post 617040)
How do you know this?

The evaluator told me. Talk about a tough job interview. He basically ran beside me for four games. The missed calls were part of the evaluation.

Good news is he thought I hustled and got into the correct positions most of the time.

mick Mon Jul 27, 2009 07:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 617043)
The evaluator told me. Talk about a tough job interview. He basically ran beside me for four games. The missed calls were part of the evaluation.

Good news is he thought I hustled and got into the correct positions most of the time.

Attaboy !

Mark Padgett Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 617007)
This may sound silly, but it works: Watch a basketball game on television with a whistle in your mouth. Sound the whistle, and give the appropriate hand signal (hand, fist, or held ball) in response to what you see on the television. It works. I promise.

If you're watching an NBA game, don't bother trying to call the travels. ;)

mendi Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:45am

travelling, double dribbling and carrying are old rules
 
you not cool if you call for this.

Smitty Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendi (Post 617106)
you not cool if you call for this.

WTF? This is not the place to be whining about that.

APG Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendi (Post 617106)
you not cool if you call for this.

What other calls are "not cool" in the mendi book of officiating?

Raymond Mon Jul 27, 2009 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendi (Post 617106)
you not cool if you call for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 617115)
What other calls are "not cool" in the mendi book of officiating?

They are not cool in Israel.

Mark Padgett Mon Jul 27, 2009 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 617178)
They are not cool in Israel.

Or in the NBA. ;)

Adam Mon Jul 27, 2009 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendi (Post 617106)
you not cool if you call for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 617114)
WTF? This is not the place to be whining about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 617115)
What other calls are "not cool" in the mendi book of officiating?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 617178)
They are not cool in Israel.

I think our Israeli friend is using sarcasm.

Smitty Mon Jul 27, 2009 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 617194)
I think our Israeli friend is using sarcasm.

I think you give him too much of the benefit of the doubt. I'm not so sure he was kidding.

Adam Mon Jul 27, 2009 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 617198)
I think you give him too much of the benefit of the doubt. I'm not so sure he was kidding.

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, to be sure; partly based on the language barrier. It was too over the top, frankly, to assume he was serious.

dsturdy5 Mon Jul 27, 2009 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanja (Post 617023)
Referee the defense (first) so that you can determine if the defender did anything wrong. If not, he cannot be penalized even if there is substantial contact. Two tips might help:

1. Position your self to see ball handler, defender and space in between (get a good angle).
2. Stay far enough away from the play to see both feet and upper body without having to move your head or feet.

Two great pieces of advice here. Learning to use your entire field of vision is key. Keep at it, practice is the only way to get better. Keep taking more games and get as much feedback as possible from people whom you respect as officials.

Also, if you can, ask someone to film your games from a high-wide angle. This will allow you to see your positioning a little better as well as if you are hustling as much as you think you are (I have no reason to believe you are not).

Not that you want to beat yourself up over it, but you can see calls you may have missed as well. Use this to teach yourself about better positioning and using that field of vision.

mendi Mon Jul 27, 2009 06:50pm

wow
 
i didnt think that someone will take my "cool" thing seriously... language barrier? i dont think so.

mendi Mon Jul 27, 2009 06:52pm

i mean
 
i mean, wtf.
u got to kick all those carriers and travelers off the courts.

Mregor Mon Jul 27, 2009 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909 (Post 616964)

2. Having a hard time officiating play in the paint or at the basket, particularly on fast breaks. It's difficult for me to see/decide what's incidental and what's a foul. Add in I am missing contact with the body. I think I have a good angle, but maybe I don't.

Try working a little deeper or farther off the end line. That will allow you to see more in your field of vision.

rockyroad Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendi (Post 617241)
i mean, wtf.
u got to kick all those carriers and travelers off the courts.

Don't worry about it, mendi. Most of us got it that you were being funny.

Nevadaref Tue Jul 28, 2009 01:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendi (Post 617106)
travelling, double dribbling and carrying are old rules

you not cool if you call for this.

He is probably making this comment in the context of how the NBA game is called for entertainment value, but I wish to point out that palming/carrying the ball was an NCAA Point of Emphasis two years ago, while traveling is a POE for this coming season. :cool:

just another ref Tue Jul 28, 2009 01:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 617322)
..... I wish to point out that palming/carrying the ball was an NCAA Point of Emphasis two years ago, while traveling is a POE for this coming season. :cool:


Not a moment too soon. It will be interesting to see if things change.

Nevadaref Tue Jul 28, 2009 02:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 617324)
Not a moment too soon. It will be interesting to see if things change.

Don't get your hopes up. Three second violations are on the list as well. :rolleyes:

just another ref Tue Jul 28, 2009 02:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 617325)
Don't get your hopes up. Three second violations are on the list as well. :rolleyes:

Three seconds doesn't bother me much. Blatant traveling does.

Back In The Saddle Tue Jul 28, 2009 07:38am

RE: Signals

Get in front of a mirror. Practice all of your signals regularly. Practice the whole sequence of arm up (fist or palm, as appropriate) followed by the foul prelim (assuming one is common in your area) or violation followed by the disposition. Practice your table reporting mechanics too. Run through all the numbers, all the fouls, pointing, etc. Practice making that funny T shape as well, practice making it look cool, calm, detached, just another foul-like.

This does a couple of things. First, if you'll work through the entire sequence, it helps build the muscle memory and proper habits that will allow you to get past having to think about this. It'll just become automatic. Second, it gives you a chance to see what you look like, and make adjustments until you look good with all the signals.

Practice all this regularly. I still do it regularly when I hit the mens room at work.

mbyron Tue Jul 28, 2009 07:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 617326)
Three seconds doesn't bother me much. Blatant traveling does.

I went to a clinic last month sponsored by our state association. One of the clinicians works D2 and D3 in and around Ohio, and he told us that "traveling is called too much." The experienced officials around me nodded sagely.

So I wonder who wants traveling to be a POE? Coaches? Players? Just officials?

Back In The Saddle Tue Jul 28, 2009 08:11am

As for the rest...

First of all, keep working on all of it. Developing good habits early on will benefit you in the long run.

However, my experience (both personally and from working with other new officials) is that when you're starting out, the game comes at you really fast. But there are a few things that can help you right away, and some that will help you down the road.

Right away, two things you can do to slow the game down are to maintain proper distance from the play and to narrow your focus. An awful lot happens in the paint, and at lead at times it's all coming right at you, at 90 miles and hour, and larger than life. As has been pointed out already, get a couple of steps off the end line. If you don't have room to get deep, then get wide. This will give you a wider view, which is important in seeing the whole play, etc. But it also tends to slow it all down a bit and make it seem "smaller" and easier to take in.

You also need to narrow your focus. When starting out, we have a tendency to want to watch everything, to not miss anything. But the only realistic way to do this is divide up "the action" between partners and for each partner to watch just his portion. Only having to watch part of the area, or more importantly, part of the players helps slow the game down and make it more manageable. I know some guys who actually imagine the different areas on the floor being different colors, and that helps them "watch their area" better. That's never worked for me.

What works for me is watching matchups. (Nearly) Everything interesting that happens in the game happens in a matchup. So pick up the two, or possibly three, closest matchups and make those your focus. If the ball is in your area, that is your primary matchup. But also know where your secondary matchups are and keep an eye on them. Those are mostly likely to be where the play is going. Work to keep an open look between the players in your primary matchup, and as much as possible in your secondary matchup too. If you can focus on just four players, the game slows down, you're more likely to see the whole play, and it all becomes more manageable.

The stuff that will help you down the road has to do with developing good habits now. As you do this, parts of what we do begin to become second nature, they become habits. When they become second nature, we don't have to think about them (much) any more. That frees up our limited brain power to focus on other things. We're able to do more, and take in more, because we've got our conscious and subconscious minds both working on various parts of "the problem."

Just as an example, take administering a throw-in. It's a simple thing, right? Until you start thinking about it. :D You've got to make eye contact with your partner(s), ensure the player is fully oob and on/over the spot, communicate to the thrower that he has a spot (or that he can run), notice whether he's got a defender "in his face", and if so communicate to the defender not to reach through the boundary, deliver the ball to the thrower, get your non-counting hand up with the hand open, back off a step or two, begin your count, keep and eye on the thrower to make sure he doesn't violate, keep an eye on that defender to make sure he doesn't reach through, and then somehow keep an eye on the other players in the vicinity of the thrower to ensure no illegal contact occurs. Oh, and if the defense puts a lot of pressure on, then you need to be aware of a possible time out request.

So not much, right?

But with a little time, a lot of this becomes automatic. Eye contact with partner(s)? Automatic. Ensuring the thrower is on his spot and communicating with the thrower and nearest defender? Automatic. Delivering the ball, unless you're handing it to the thrower, this one isn't really automatic. But hand up, proper distance, and counting...that becomes automatic. Watching the thrower? You learn to do that out of the corner of your eye, and to not focus on him. You learn to spend most of your "cycles" watching the action in the vacinity of the thrower. More specifically you're watching for teammates cutting to get open to ensure they're not being held, and watching for teammates screening to ensure the screens are legal. And the time out request, you learn to sense when that's coming.

Most of the mundane details just become automatic, and the conscious stuff, well you learn what specifically to watch for and when.

Keep up the great work, and before you know it the new kids will be asking you how you manage to see everything. :)

Raymond Tue Jul 28, 2009 09:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 617354)
...So I wonder who wants traveling to be a POE? Coaches? Players? Just officials?

The NCAA-W wants it with focus on the "spin move" and "shooter's hop".

tomegun Wed Jul 29, 2009 05:10am

I would say work on getting the proper angle instead of getting off the end line. This includes the proper angle when a drive goes to the hoop which will not (in most cases) mean closing down or getting sucked into the play.

Many gyms will not allow you to get too far off the end line so it isn't even useful to practice it. I was working some games last weekend - two with Nevada - where I was forced to literally stand on the end line. There were a few plays where something happened right in my face, but for the most part it was OK.

Traveling is something many people miss, meaning miss the correct call, because they are splitting hairs. If traveling is your best call, you are in trouble. Also, a prominent D1 official always preaches to make errors of ommission instead of errors of commission.


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