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-   -   More thoughts on new NF FT mechanic (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/54027-more-thoughts-new-nf-ft-mechanic.html)

Mark Padgett Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:16am

More thoughts on new NF FT mechanic
 
With the new mechanic placing the trail near the benches but with his or her back toward the coach, I can imagine some of the conversations that will now come up.

Coach: "Hey - aren't you going to answer my question?"
Official: "Since my back is to you, I couldn't tell if the question came from you or some moron in the stands. Now that I'm facing you, I still can't tell."

Coach: "How could you make that call at this point in the game?"
Official: (with fingers sticking in ears) "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA..."

Coach: "Hey there. HEY there. HEY THERE!!!!!"
Official: (thinking to himself) "Hmmmm, I wonder what I'm having for dinner?"

And, the one I'm sure I'll get:
Coach: "The shooter went over the line. That's a violation!"
Official: "Coach, the shot went in. If I waive it off, we'll go into overtime. Get serious!"

Ref Ump Welsch Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:44pm

Padgett, love the post! LOL

Seriously, this mechanic may create some goodies for me. As some of you know, I'm completely deaf in one ear, and wear a hearing aid in the other. I can imagine I'll be hearing voices in my head...or was it actually a coach trying to talk to me???

FrankHtown Mon Jul 20, 2009 01:25pm

We've been using this mechanic in Texas for years, and I guarantee if the coach has a question for you, you'll know it before you turn your back to the benches.

Mark Padgett Mon Jul 20, 2009 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 615698)
I can imagine I'll be hearing voices in my head...or was it actually a coach trying to talk to me???

There's a difference? :confused:

APG Wed Jul 22, 2009 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankHtown (Post 615711)
We've been using this mechanic in Texas for years, and I guarantee if the coach has a question for you, you'll know it before you turn your back to the benches.

True...I've never had any problems knowing when coach had a question or not.

Ref Ump Welsch Wed Jul 22, 2009 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 615722)
There's a difference? :confused:

Damn you Padgett...now I'll never know!!! ;)

WreckRef Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:51pm

I was told that PBOA won't be using this mechanic this year, just an FYI if you are in PDX.

Mark Padgett Fri Jul 24, 2009 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WreckRef (Post 616641)
I was told that PBOA won't be using this mechanic this year, just an FYI if you are in PDX.

SHEESH! Now I have to decide if we're going to use it for our kids rec league. Hmmmmmm.

26 Year Gap Fri Jul 24, 2009 04:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 616647)
SHEESH! Now I have to decide if we're going to use it for our kids rec league. Hmmmmmm.

You could have the coaches go opposite.

DonInKansas Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:45pm

I just wonder how much the number of technicals is going to go up this year.

Mark Padgett Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonInKansas (Post 616736)
I just wonder how much the number of technicals is going to go up this year.

Can't go up for me. I'm already averaging an infinite number of them. :)

And please, don't tell me infinity is metric. :(

jkohls Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonInKansas (Post 616736)
I just wonder how much the number of technicals is going to go up this year.

I read somewhere that when they sent the trail opposite, there were more techs called, as coaches were standing yelling across the floor, as opposed to speaking to an official right in front of them. You see, the "Look at me" factor is diminished if the official is right there, so some coaches are neutralized by proximity.

Rich Sat Jul 25, 2009 02:32am

I get the feeling that quite a few associations / organizations are going to ignore this change.

truerookie Sat Jul 25, 2009 06:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 616749)
I get the feeling that quite a few associations / organizations are going to ignore this change.

Why? This is the perferct opportunity to display our interpersonal skills.

One should never give up the opportunity to communicate, although, it may not be what one wants to hear.

mbyron Sat Jul 25, 2009 08:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 616738)
Can't go up for me. I'm already averaging an infinite number of them. :)

And please, don't tell me infinity is metric. :(

Good news: infinity is not metric.

Bad news: there's lots of different size infinities. :eek:

BillyMac Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:52am

Ounce ??? Liquid Volume, Or Dry Weight ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 616759)
Infinity is not metric.

Great news. When I visit Liberia, if I use the word infinity, they'll know what I'm talking about, just as well as they know that there are four pecks in a bushel.

Mark Padgett Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkohls (Post 616739)
I read somewhere that when they sent the trail opposite, there were more techs called

Another reason not to make the change. :rolleyes:

constable Mon Aug 03, 2009 05:36pm

Does anyone know the rationale behind the change? Are they fixing what isn't broke?

JRutledge Mon Aug 03, 2009 05:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 618684)
Does anyone know the rationale behind the change? Are they fixing what isn't broke?

My understanding this was to help communication with coaches.

Peace

Camron Rust Mon Aug 03, 2009 07:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 618684)
Does anyone know the rationale behind the change? Are they fixing what isn't broke?

It sure seems like it sometimes.

For the record, Oregon has decided not to implement this change...and were are almost exclusively a 2-person state....even at the tournaments.

Mark Padgett Mon Aug 03, 2009 08:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 618693)
For the record, Oregon has decided not to implement this change...and were are almost exclusively a 2-person state

Don't worry, Camron. The way our state is headed, pretty soon 3-person will be legal. :D

Texas Aggie Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:58pm

I don't know why any state would not want to use this mechanic. It isn't a problem. Out of the coaches technicals I've given over the last few years, I can't recall one off the top of my head that happened because I was there and not opposite the table. In other words -- while I was standing there waiting for or during the free throw(s).

Raymond Wed Aug 05, 2009 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 618931)
I don't know why any state would not want to use this mechanic. It isn't a problem. Out of the coaches technicals I've given over the last few years, I can't recall one off the top of my head that happened because I was there and not opposite the table. In other words -- while I was standing there waiting for or during the free throw(s).

Maybe some states don't like that in the new positioning neither official can see the benches and table.

The mechanic affects more than just how close you are standing to the front court coach.

Ref Ump Welsch Wed Aug 05, 2009 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 619062)
Maybe some states don't like that in the new positioning neither official can see the benches and table.

Trust me, seeing the benches and table at the sub-varsity can be quite helpful. I actually had multiple games where we've had to hand out T's because players would report to the table and not wait till they were beckoned in. I can only think it could get worse if our backs are turned. On the flip side, I can see it being better because we would be right there to give them the stop sign and hold them up and prevent the T's. I have mixed feelings about this new mechanic.

Smitty Wed Aug 05, 2009 03:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 619062)
Maybe some states don't like that in the new positioning neither official can see the benches and table.

The mechanic affects more than just how close you are standing to the front court coach.

The lead can see the benches and table pretty well. In cases where there are subs, the lead can get a glance over to see if there are any and help out the trail. And there's a view of the benches in case a melee is breaking out. I still don't see what the big deal is. People are making more out of this than there is. *shrug*

Raymond Thu Aug 06, 2009 08:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 619079)
The lead can see the benches and table pretty well. In cases where there are subs, the lead can get a glance over to see if there are any and help out the trail. And there's a view of the benches in case a melee is breaking out. I still don't see what the big deal is. People are making more out of this than there is. *shrug*

Really, a 5' 5" official doing a Varsity game involving 6'5" kids can easily see the bench in this new 2-man mechanic from the lead?

Smitty Thu Aug 06, 2009 09:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 619183)
Really, a 5' 5" official doing a Varsity game involving 6'5" kids can easily see the bench in this new 2-man mechanic from the lead?

Sure, why not? What exactly do you think needs THAT much attention during a free throw? What's the difference between this scenario and the heat of a game when the trail is tableside and his back is to the benches? I would expect that situation to be much more volatile. Who's watching the benches then?

I think way too much significance is being placed on who's seeing what with this change in mechanics. During a free throw, as lead, I can take as much time as I need before bouncing the ball to the free thrower. If it's a tense situation. I can be very aware of what's going on at the benches.

Does everyone really have that many problems with the benches during free throws?

FrankHtown Thu Aug 06, 2009 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 619079)
I still don't see what the big deal is. People are making more out of this than there is. *shrug*

I agree.

I've gotten MUCH better at communicating with coaches since I am tableside, and not having to try to communicate from 45 feet away. Easier to explain what you saw, and/or the call you made. Easier to keep things under control than shouting across the floor.

The trail is right there if a coach requests a time-out before the free throws are taken.

And I'm 5'7" and have not had a problem seeing the scorer's table (I think that's where the subs are supposed to be) before I bounce the ball to the shooter as Lead.

Raymond Thu Aug 06, 2009 02:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankHtown (Post 619251)
I agree.

I've gotten MUCH better at communicating with coaches since I am tableside, and not having to try to communicate from 45 feet away. Easier to explain what you saw, and/or the call you made. Easier to keep things under control than shouting across the floor.

The trail is right there if a coach requests a time-out before the free throws are taken.

And I'm 5'7" and have not had a problem seeing the scorer's table (I think that's where the subs are supposed to be) before I bounce the ball to the shooter as Lead.

Being tableside or not has never been an issue for me communicating with coaches. Most coaches really don't give a hoot what I have to say, they just want to say something and feel like you're paying attention. I can do that from a distance with a nod of the head or some other non-verbal just as easily as I can do it standing in front of them with my back to them. By the time I get close to them again they are not even thinking about whatever play was on their mind.

And I've seen plenty of subs come to the table after the Lead has bounced the ball to the thrower (I think that they are allowed to report to the table after the ball has been administered).

A Pennsylvania Coach Thu Aug 06, 2009 08:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 615670)
And, the one I'm sure I'll get:
Coach: "The shooter went over the line. That's a violation!"
Official: "Coach, the shot went in. If I waive it off, we'll go into overtime. Get serious!"

Your teams are shooting at the wrong baskets!


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