First, the boring one from last night. Both officials had whistles at the same time. The first one to speak up calls a double foul off the ball. He reports them. Then the other one says he has a two-shot foul. He reports it. (The funny thing is both fouls on the opponents were on the same guy! Somebody must've mixed up a number.) Somebody from the other team is confused, and asks if there were three fouls on that play, and the official tells him there was. We shoot two for the shooting foul, then we go to the arrow and the opponents get the ball (at midcourt, not too sure about that).

Now, the interesting one from Wednesday. I wasn't a player, just a spectator. Team A misses a shot at the buzzer and it goes to overtime. (Meanwhile, I'm thinking that I'm surprised that these guys let a rec game go to OT.) Late in the OT, my assistant coach (who plays for Team B) shot faked, ducked under, and shot the ball. There was a whistle and the horn. The whistle was a shooting foul, by one of the most veteran officials around. There was no contact, according to my assistant coach. They put :01 back on the clock. My AC goes to the line and hits the first. Surprisingly, he makes the second. (I would've missed on purpose.) Team A calls timeout and then inbounds deep. My AC bats the ball out of bounds, but the clock never started! The officials leave the :01 up there, Team A inbounds baseline, and scores on a lob to go to the second OT!

Late in the second OT, Team B is down by 3 with 7 seconds left, so they foul. A1 misses the front end, and B1 (my AC) pushes into frontcourt and calls time out with 3 seconds left. Team A comes out guarding the three-point line, so my AC gets an inbound pass about 30 feet out and drains the three to force a third OT. Team A won in the third OT by two.

Comments? Especially on whether the officials could have/should have put that second back up, and whether they could have/should have left it up there after the deflection.

Haven't we had this one on here before? I think our decision was that principles of lag time apply - if ref whistled, looked, and saw :01, he would reset to :01.

Quote:

My AC bats the ball out of bounds, but the clock never started! The officials leave the :01 up there, Team A inbounds baseline, and scores on a lob to go to the second OT!

Are you sure the clock didn't start?? Unless the clock shows 1/10ths of a second, you would have no way of knowing if the clock started or not. I have had times where the ball is quickly deflected OOB on an inbounds pass twice in a row, and no time ran off the display, but the clock was running - it just depends on how good of a timer you have.

I think you know how we are going to answer this.

The first sitch is just wrong on so many levels I won't even comment.

#2 There should not have been time put back on if they were using Fed rules. I would not have cleared the clock on the inbound play. Since it was only tapped out, legitimatly (sp) there could have still been time on the clock, big stretch to call it there.

And if it was me, I would have definitly had a foul on that three at the buzzer of OT2...

I am doubting the fact that you have an adult rec league game late in the second OT and you are still shooting a 1 and 1? Minor detail in your story, but it caught my eye.

I had a similar thought ("it has to be double bonus by now"), so I asked my AC after the game. He said they play one-and-one on the 8th foul and no double bonus. I don't know why; maybe it keeps the game going a little faster?

"Double bonus?" What's that? I can't seem to find it in my rules book. ;)

Yeah, I think we've had this conversation before. What would be the correct term? "Two-shot bonus"? "Guaranteed bonus"? "Automatic bonus"? There's no official name to distinguish it from the 1-and-1 variety, as far as I can remember.

"Okay guys, line-up. ...Shootin' two(of those thingys)."

Well, as far as that goes, is the term "1 and 1" in the rule book?

When the NCAA first put in the two shot foul on a common foul some years ago, commentator and former coach Al McGuire recommended calling it the "super bonus", but it never caught on. I think "double bonus" has become the recognized and accepted term.

I don't think so. I'm sans books at the moment, but I think it's something like, "a bonus free throw is awarded beginning with the opponents 7th team foul, if the first throw is successful. The bonus is automatically awarded on the 10th and subsequent team foul."

I knew what PACoach meant by the term -- I was just in a "precise" mood -- and it's one of my favorite rules trivia questions to get new officials into the book.

I think that means that I was right!! Henceforth, let it be known as the automatic bonus! :D

Chuck

The casebook (somewhere) refers to an "automatic bonus". The first shot is given and the second is either earned by making the FT or is automatic (with 10 or more fouls). Can't really be the double bonus since the first one is not a bonus, just the second one.

If the first one's not a "bonus" shot, why is it only awarded after the 7th team foul?? :confused: :)

The first one is a bonus shot.The language in the books support that--specifically R-4-19-12 and CB 2.10.6A&B.These all talk about a bonus FT at 7 fouls.The first shot would always be a bonus shot.The second shot becomes an additional automatic bonus shot at 10 fouls.Just semantics,IMO.

Hmmm .... but the rules book (4-Bonus Free Throw and "Summary of Fouls") make it clear that the scend throw is the bonus. So, what do we call the first one? Interestingly, I see nothing in the book that grants the first throw (except that you can't have the bonus without it).

Bob,that's why I went to the casebook. 2.6.10A&B both talk about a bonus FT situation on the 7th foul specifically.I can see where you're coming from,but the 7th to 9th have to be something,and it can't be much else but a bonus shot.If you look at CB4.8.2,it says it counts as one of the 7 team fouls to reach the bonus.So obviously,you have a bonus FT at 7 fouls.I think it's just as obvious that it isn't mentioned as a requirement anywhere that the first shot for the 7th foul has to be made before this is considered a bonus situation.Au contraire,AAMF.As I said,semantics,IMO.

The first one is simply a "Free Throw". If you make it, you get a bonus FT shot. The whole thing is a bonus situation because there will be the chance that the player will get to take the bonus FT. A bonus, in general terms, is something extra...usually for good performance (the made shot). Before they 7th foul, the team gets the ball. At the 7th, the team gets the FT(s) instead of the ball. The FT(s) is(are) not a bonus, they are in place of getting possession. The 10th foul makes the bonus automatic. It is not in place of something else, it is an extra shot.


RULE 4
SECTION 8 BONUS FREE THROW
ART. 1 . . . A bonus free throw is the second free throw awarded for a common foul (except a player-control foul) as follows:
a. Beginning with a team's seventh foul in each half and for the eighth and ninth foul, the bonus is awarded only if the first free throw is successful.
b. Beginning with a team's 10th foul in each half the bonus is awarded whether or not the first free throw is successful.

"Yo, one-and-one!"
"No, one-and-maybe (<i>another one</i>)."
I gotter now.

I know - my joke about the semantics just didn't come across well.

It was quiet.
And then,
A new prisoner hears, "5!".
The whole cell block laughed.
In a few minutes, the newbie hears, "14".
The whole cell block laughed again....

Is this a math joke?

'Cause, you know, I usually get those. :D

It was quiet.
And then,
A new prisoner hears, "5!".
The whole cell block laughed.
In a few minutes, the newbie hears, "14!".
The whole cell block laughed again.
So the newbie asked his cell mate, "What's going on?"
The guy said, "Aw, we've heard these joke so many times, we just gave 'em numbers." And with that, he yelled out, "55!", and the whole cell block cracked up.

The new guy, wanting to fit in, then yelled out, "23!"
And, ...nothing....
While he was wondering "What the Hey?", he heard way down the line...


"Some guys just can't tell a joke." ;)