Nope - not gonna do it
 

Just got an email from an assignor wanting to know if I'll work two or three wreck games two weeks from now. They pay $20 each. Uh - no.

Let me ask you guys. How much would it take to get you to work a wreck game and how many would you have to work in one shift to make it worthwhile? Note - the venue is about a 15 minute drive from here.

BTW - not taking these games doesn't affect future assignments for kids games from this guy.

If the game were within a 10 minute drive from my house. Which in my case I live adjacent to an Army base and 10 minutes from a Navy base.

Do you know what a naval destroyer is? A hula hoop with a nail in it. :o

In that case, just get a spare belly button from the Navel Reserve.

Mark,
What do you normally get for rec league games. I don't work them because I hate them so I don't know what's fair. I do work HS summer league girls games in bball and soccer.

For games in my local kids league (I'm on the Board) I get $25 for grades 3-8 and $27.50 for HS. For most of the other kids rec games I get $22.50 - $30 and for tournaments and some camps I get $27.50 - $35. It probably averages around $27.50. Of course, I mostly work games close to my house.

Meds impair driving? :D

In 2009, it would have to be $25 at least, unless I was helping a friend or something. A PSA: any young/newer official shouldn't stop doing rec ball unless they have another way of seeing competitive plays on a regular basis. Many experienced officials mention not doing them, but it doesn't do anything for them at that point except make them some spare change.

I would do games for $20. I don't really care about the money so much - it's just nice pocket change anyway. I like to do summer games to keep fresh and to work on stuff. I won't work adult games for any price, but I'll work kids games and I'll drive up to 30 minutes easy to get there. Maybe more - I don't really have a limit set for that kind of thing. I just like working games. I like to work at least 3 games, but I'm flexible on that, too.

One nice thing I've found here in Texas is that they pay cash at the site for every summer tourney I've done so far. In Oregon, you have to wait for a check from the assigner. That's a nice change.

I don't like to do less than two games at a time. I can usually get $25-30/game for Rec ball.

But, that being said, I have done a "panic game" or two from an assignor when they're short-handed. My advantage is that I have ~ 20 schools within 10 miles of my house and can be their fairly quickly (if available).

I try to avoid doing the real little kids (below 12 yrs old). I just don't enjoy it as much - but, I have done some, again, when I get a "panic" phone call. I'd rather do it than have the kids NOT have a ref, or just an un-motivated 16 yr old.

JMO

Now that's one helluva official! :)

Oh, rec ball doesn't bother me one bit. You just hand out T's like they're candy and don't be afraid to forfeit a game now and then if the conditions warrant it.

Good place for me to work on my mechanics during the summer and before HS seasons starts.

Why thank you (sarc). :rolleyes:

I'm gonna have to send all my posts to mbyron or BillyMac for editing before I submit them in the future......I did go to public schools ya know! ;)

No, they make it more interesting. ;)

BTW - I did work a spring league this year for only $20 per game. I did it because I got to pretty much pick my own schedule and partners, plus the games were relatively short running clock and it was for a non-profit organization (YMCA). Again, it's only about 10 or 15 minutes from my house and it was a lot of fun. I worked mostly 5th through 8th grade with a few JV and Varsity games and I knew a lot of the coaches personally. In fact, one guy was a friend I hadn't seen in about 10 years. He was coaching his son's JV team. His kid was a freshman at a HS about 10 miles from here and was really good. His wife came up and hugged me before the game but I told her that unless she also bought foul insurance for her son, that wouldn't do her any good. ;)

As others have said, there are a lot of variables. Over the years I have set a few rules for myself...

1. I try to avoid men's leagues all together. Nothing good comes of me working them. I do live within walking distance of a health club where the largest local men's league is housed. On occasion I get the "panic call", as someone else alluded to it and if I answer it I kind of feel obligated to go. I do not call the assignor looking for these games.

2. I live near where I grew up and always take games in the leagues I played in. They were instrumental in involving me in the game that I love. In some cases I run into officials, coaches, and directors who were involved in the league when I was a young'n.

3. I give every rec league two chances at each level. I know I can luck out and have an easy day in a "tough" if I only do it once. Vice versa, I can have a horrible day in a great league if I only work once. If I find I am unsure of how it went, I won't take more for that year but will try again next year.

4. Distance and time are both considered. Like another said, I am lucky to have a load of schools/clubs in my area and can find work almost any day/night of the week from November through April. I can afford to pick and choose when I want to drive further away or when I want to work just in the morning so I can be home for football on a Sunday afternoon.

5. Nothing less than $25.

6. No league where I would be expected to work alone. I worked too many of these games in my first two years just to get experience and it turned into me forming very bad habits that took twice as many games to rid myself of and I really think it held me back in my first four or five years as an official.

If you are working on things, why wouldn't you want to work on it with more competitive basketball: adults?

Now that I have that question out of the way, when did you move to Texas? This is the same Smitty that worked for a certain company that we both love right?

Again, I don't understand the disdain for men's rec ball. (shrug) the more experienced I got, the easier they have been to do.

I have to take something back. I guess I would do a rec game for $20 since I worked two seasons of double-headers in Mississippi for $60! Since two high school games take around 3 hours, that is the same as working 3 rec games for $20 each. I'm not going to know what to do with myself when I only have to do one game this season. :D

It's sounding as if you could sign up to work for two different associations and have more than one game a night. ;)

PS I hear that you are back into the instructional mix down there. :)

3 or 4 if you count the summer tournaments. I think I'm in the instructional mix, but then again, I'm not even officially part of that association. Let's just say I'm betting on black and red. I just hope green doesn't come up!

I'm so tired right now. I went to a camp last weekend, I'm about to do day 2 of a 3 day Euro/NBA "thing", have been working on assigning some games for next week and working the graveyard shift on my 9-5 (actually 6pm-6am). Today will involve two games, playing with my little girl, a massage and sleep!

The experiences I've had with adult rec ball have all been with a bunch of big babies who whine and yell and scream at nearly every call. I just don't enjoy it. If there was an adult league that controlled the behavior of the players and the players actually acted like grownups, then I might consider it. But the ones I've worked have just not been worth the abuse I've taken. I can find plenty of competitive games at the high school level in the summertime.

I am the same Smitty. Lost my job at that place we both love, and I was fortunate enough to find a job here in Texas. This will be my 6th association. I'm used to starting over in a new place - gotta learn 3-man mechanics, though.

I hear you, adult wreck ball can be a tough gig because there's usuallly no coaches or organization within the teams.
But we have the good ol' 3 Ts on 1 team = forfeit rule here. After my partner & I went home early (with pay) a few times, the players seem to have caught the drift.

I can hear them whispering when I walk in the gym now. "Don't say nothing tonight" or "Let them call the game, we'll adjust" :)

Personally, I believe anybody that can successfully manage a wreck game, can handle most sanctioned games with ease. Your communication & conflict resolution skills are put to the ultimate test with that animal!

Abuse? Since when do you "take abuse," Smitty?

First nasty look I get is a warning. Second bad behavior is a T, third and you're gone. Any escalation after that and it's "tweet....that's ball game." It actually works really well.

In rec league, you only get "abused" when you allow yourself to be "abused."

Sure, that's one point of view. You have fun giving out T's and throwing people out, and ending games. That's not my idea of a good time. I prefer a controlled game in a controlled environment where I don't have to be throwing people out left and right. The adult games are all yours. Have fun!

Where did I say it is fun? It's just part of the job.

Funny - I don't have to do all that with the youth tourneys. It's only a part of the job if you choose to do that level of crap. I choose not to.

And as a caveat, I do this job because it's fun. If it's not fun, what's the point?

That's fine. I was just commenting on your "take abuse" comment. IMO, it's a poor reason for looking down on rec league ball.

Some people have just have thin skin, I guess.

:D:) Not saying it's fun or I enjoy whacking/tossing people & ending games, but utilizing those tools certainly payoff in the longrun. I hardly have to go there lately, I have a "look" I give 'em now & it seems to be very effective.

Thanks, I'll take all the games I can get! I'm not as fortunate as others who are able to pick & choose... yet :D

I choose not to work adult rec league because in my experience it is not fun. If you can make a giant leap from that to making a deduction about how thick my skin is, let's just say that makes your opinion even more meaningless to me. :rolleyes:

Agreed

This summer marks my third foray into the men's league in this area.

The first year, I let players get away with a lot. Smack talk to my face, cursing, whining, etc etc. Boy was that a long season. Toward the end of the season, I started issuing T's, but fairly conservatively. Things calmed down a bit, but not much.

Last year, I came into the league with the mindset that I'm going to call it as I would a high school game. I think one night at the beginning of the season I called 10 T's over the course of three games. The guys got the picture.

Now, as Ch1town said, when I walk into the gym, the guys know who I am. They adjust their games (and attitudes) accordingly. Most nights I really enjoy the games I do, and some of the guys who used to curse me actually pat me on the back at the end of games.

It's all about your attitude. If you look at them as crap games, they will always be crap games. That's no one's fault but your own.

But if you look at rec league as a place to hone up on your skills (both reffing and people skills), it can be a valuable place for tuning up and making extra cash.

You are the one who says you don't like "taking the abuse."

To me, that signifies either thin skin or an inability to get the job done. I've gotten a lot of flak here over the years whenever I mention how I let a coach or a player cross the line without laying down the law. No different here.

There's no one to blame but yourself when you put on the whistle and fail to blow it when the occasion permits. It only becomes "crap" ball when you allow it to become that.

When I first started working men's rec, I had no particular attitude about the players, but over the years, the way they played and acted forged my attitude to the point where I just couldn't work them anymore because I was having no fun whatsoever and only annoyance and stress. My experience was that a lot of these guys are trying to prove something to themselves, mostly that the only reason they weren't the star of their old HS team was because the coach had something against them personally - it couldn't possibly be because they weren't a good enough player.

Once it became wreck ball in my mind, I quit working it. As others have said, if it isn't fun, why do it?

Seriously, knock yourself out. You can have them. I am not interested in training adults to behave properly. It's a waste of my valuable time. I'll stick with the youth games.

I agree, but I'm glad I still have fun with it! Maybe I'm still too green to know any better...

How about womens wreck leagues? My experience has been that they don't chirp nearly as much as the men do. Actually, the majority of them played some level of college ball in the 2 womens leagues I work. With the men, most didn't even start for their HS team, let alone college :rolleyes:

I'll take those too :) still 4-6 nights a week for me, no drop off since March.
While I get more atypical situations in youth games, I don't get much above the rim play at that level & the parents (oh boy). "Let 'em play ref" 20 seconds later "somebodys gonna get hurt" gotta love it :)

Honestly, I get more joy & less grief working adult wreck than youth. But I enjoy seeing the kids have "fun" while they're on the court, so I guess working both in the off-season helps with different aspects of my development. But that's just me, to each his/her own.

My job isn't to train anyone. It's to enforce the rules. Maybe that's your problem. You and I look at officiating differently.

Like once when I was doing a Jr High game and I used the resumption-of-play procedure on a girls team who wouldn't come out of their huddle. One of the parents on the front row screamed at me, "Come on, ref, it's your job to teach the girls!"

To which I promptly turned around and said, "On the contrary, sir. That's the coach's job."

Now you're just being silly. And you really should stop trying to insult me. You're making yourself look ridiculous. "Maybe that's your problem" is just a stupid thing to say. You're comparing apples to oranges. Give it a rest.

I'm heading to lunch, so feel free to get the last word in. Make it one that really gets me good. :)

I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just saying that I've never looked at officiating as an opportunity to train players. That's the coaches' jobs. If I was out there to train players, I would have to stop at every whistle and tell little Bobby why he's traveling. That would get annoying after a while.

I can see how looking at officiating in that manner could make you frustrated, though.

I had a game last fall in a "competitive" MS league. I was working a 6th grade girls game and made a five second closely guarded call. The coach went nuts and yelled at me, "How are they supposed to know about that rule? They're only in 6th grade."

I looked at him and said, "Most teams have something that teaches their players the rules. It's called a coach. I think you can buy them at Wal-Mart. I'm sure you know where that is, since you apparently buy your clothes there."

He wasn't happy but my partner cracked up.

Man, I have got to get a game with you someday! It sounds like your crew has a great time.

I'm sure you know where that is, since you apparently buy your clothes there
Classic :D

Funny, but over the line. I'd never make a personal insult at a coach, no matter how bone headed he/she is. Bad form.

This is training adults to behave properly. They have no coaches. I have no interest in doing this. It's not fun. If you want to jump to a bunch of unsubstantiated conclusions based on my decision to avoid working adult rec ball, that's your prerogative.

Last word, huh? :rolleyes:

I agree with you 100% and that is why I don't understand the disdain for rec ball in this forum. Seeing plays and conflict resolution.

Dude. :rolleyes:

I know the terms "competitive" and "6th grade" are incongruous, but that's the terminology the leagues around here use. It's to differentiate the purely recreational leagues from the ones that try to "train" kids to play on HS teams.

For instance, there's two leagues that operate in my city. I'm on the Board of the rec league. We have about 900 kids in grades 3-12 who (most of them, anyway) play for the fun of it. We try to emphasize sportsmanship, fun and fundamentals over competitiveness. We're pretty successful at it, although there's bound to be some exceptions. Some of the "better" players can't afford to play in the other organization so they wind up on one of our teams. Our policy is that any kid who wants to play can play. We even have a "scholarship fund" to help kids from low-income families. No one is flat turned away.

The other league has kids from grades 5-8 and has teams in about six or seven cities in this area. Players are selected at tryouts. It's relatively expensive to play in this (and similar) leagues around here. The emphasis is on winning. I referee in this league, too - and there's a huge difference in the attitude of the parents. In all fairness, most of the coaches are OK with the refs and I've come to know a few of them from working their games over the years. Oh yeah - these guys pay at the game, usually in cash, sometimes by check. :)