How long would it take for a brand new official to do a High School game in your state?

Would they be required to do middle school games or rec. games in order to officiate High School games?

Who makes these requirements, the state or assignors?

Peace

Rut, define HS?

I know guy that work Frosh and JV in their first year (probably shouldn't, but do).

If you mean Varsity, it could happen. Each area is different. Some use assigners, some don't. If you have friends, it is much easier to move up faster. I know a guy whose Dad has reffed for 30 years, he had a full Varsity sked in his 2nd year...

Rut,

I work in KS and MO, and there are no "requirements" other than being registered and attending annual rules meetings. MO may require some mechanics clinics for new officials, I'm not 100% sure. It is mostly who you know and/or what assignors have seen you work and think you might be ready. A brand new official, guided by the proper mentor, could probably work a decent high school schedule in his/her third year if they were ready. I am mostly speaking of KS. Most assignors around my area want you to work a year or two of JV/Jr High ball for them, before giving you a shot at varsity, unless, of course, you ar working for other assignors already.

i was lucky and was assigned varsity in the 2nd half of my first season. dont get me wrong, he assigned me with 2 very good officials to pick up the slack in situations i could not handle. location and shortage of officials, i think, has a lot to do with how fast i moved up in varsity ball. i have a friend that lives in philly and he started officiating highschool basketball 9 yrs ago and worked an nba preseason game before he worked his first highschool varsity. that goes to show that in that area it is not how good you are but how good of a buddy you are!

I just got off the phone last night with the new officials coordinator with my local chapter, and new officials are started on Freshman and JV ball. Varsity is normally not seen in the first year, with the exception of possible small schools or private schools in the later part of the season. The association doesn't assign for middle school, that's left up to each institution to fend for themselves because of not having enought officials to guarentee all of the middle schools would have coverage. Often times, officials work out deals with middle schools local to them and call on nights when they don't have association games.

I am looking forward to getting started.

Oh, for cryin' out loud. Move on, Jeff. Who cares??!?! This is just a stupid little pissing contest. Take this argument with Tony to the other board, where they appreciate stupid threads that trade insults for 3 weeks. :mad:

Brad, any chance you can get rid of this thread?

Chuck

Any game that your state considers HS.
 

Any game or level that is considered a High School game in your area. For example in Illinois and Iowa for example, you cannot do any HS game without a license with the Illinois High School Association or the Iowa High School Association for games from 9th grade thru 12th grade (Boy's Association. They have a two associations for some reason.) . If officials do games without a license in both of these states, schools can forfeit games or be possibly suspended from these respective associations depending on who gave these games to the non-licensed officials. So if you do a Freshman game in these states, you must have a license with the HS Associations. If you do a 8th Grade game or lower, it might not at all be required to have any license. Not sure about Iowa, but I know it does not matter in Illinois. Even thought the Illinois Elementary School Associations (IESA) recommends that all officials have an IHSA License, but it is not at all required. But all middle schools or elementary schools do not belong to the IESA either. So you could do games with schools that have no affiliation with the IESA at all.

Peace

Who cares about Tony?
 

This is why this is a discussion board. If you do not like the post, do not read it or respond to it. This has nothing to do with Tony really at all, but since on the "other board" coaches were claiming that they would not hire officials that did not do lower levels or have other experience, I wanted to see if that applied all over the country. I would like to find out if Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, and even Indiana have different standards for HS officials. It might help officials that answer questions about becoming an official and how it relates to the actual jurisdiction that the prospective official resides. It would be easier to ask the question then looking up all 50 states for their requirements and not knowing the ins and outs of a particular state's assigning practices.

Peace

Crew,

Three man crew? Is this high School? What state?

Thanks, Stan

You asked...I'll answer.

I work in AZ, Phoenix area. AZ does things differently from anywhere else, to the best of my knowledge. If you register with the state association (Arizona Interscholastic Association), you go to clinics and are assigned FR and JV for approx 4-5 years, there are exceptions to this time frame, of course, but that is the average. These games are assigned by the area commissioner. The officials associations that exist handle city rec leagues, some middle school and Jr. Hi games, boys clubs, etc. These associations and the AIA are completely independent of one another. So, if an official only desires to do HS games, he pays his dues, buys a uniform, and is doing FR and JV games. There is NO requirement that an official has any officiating experience before registering with the AIA.

I have only worked in the Phoenix area, but am reasonably certain that this procedure is basically the same around the state.

In TEXAS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

In TX here, you are supposed to be a TASO (Texas association of sports officials) dues paying member to even call sub-varsity level, but I use guys that aren't TASO members to call ball if they have no aspirations to referee varsity, and I make the AD sign a waiver stating that he knows they aren't TASO members calling the games. That covers me if their is any problems with it. Also the AD is happy that he has referees rather than his coaches having to cover the games. Everyone wins. However, generally you will call some lower level games, but the number and level of competition directly coincides with your level of officiating. I have used first year guys here in small school varsity games and they have done a great job. It really is up to the assignor/evaluator in your area and what the bylaws in your state are, but we don't have a minimum number of sub-varsity games that you have to call. I think the shortage of officials again contributes to that factor.

Re: Who cares about Tony?
 

This has nothing to do with Tony really at all, but since on the "other board" coaches were claiming that they would not hire officials that did not do lower levels or have other experience, I wanted to see if that applied all over the country. I would like to find out if Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, and even Indiana have different standards for HS officials. It might help officials that answer questions about becoming an official and how it relates to the actual jurisdiction that the prospective official resides. It would be easier to ask the question then looking up all 50 states for their requirements and not knowing the ins and outs of a particular state's assigning practices.

[/B][/QUOTE]There's nothing the matter with the above reasons for posting,now I know that I won't have to read any kind of "I told you so" post that is based on self-interpretation of incomplete data.Different areas or associations in larger states could have completely different standards,due to the number of games available,number of officials available,use of assigners vs. schools booking their own officials,etc. I had the same doubts as Chuck,and I'm now glad that we were both wrong and we won't have to see this thread referenced in any follow-up posts to Tony in the future.

I've worked Texas and Colorado. As mentioned before, I have worked small(class A) varsity games in Texas with first year officials.

When I began in Colorado, I never saw a first year official call a varsity game. I saw several second year officials calling varsity. There it is totally up to the assignors and assignments are made before the rookie test. You have to make an 86 on the test before you can become elgible to call varsity. So the only way you can even get a varsity contest as a rookie is if someone backs out of a game. Then the assignor can put a rookie in to cover the game. He rarely does in the larger cities on the Front Range. I don't know about the assignors in the mountains, Western Slope or high plains.

As I've mentioned before, my son Josh just joined the major association here in Portland. Although it was his first year in the Assn., he was assigned to the third-year class, because he had so much rec experience and he attended a review night and was evaluated prior to his class assignment. That's as high as they can put you with only rec experience. His schedule was all Freshman and JV. After only this first year, he was just told he will achieve "regular member status" next season and will start to get varsity games.

There is a procedure wherein a ref can "transfer" from another association and have his experience there count here. He is put in the cleverly named "transfer class".

Who cares about Tony?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

I had the same doubts as Chuck,and I'm now glad that we were both wrong and we won't have to see this thread referenced in any follow-up posts to Tony in the future.

I am not glad that you were wrong, but I had doubts of what was true myself. That is why I asked. I wanted to address this question earlier, but was preparing to go out of town and just forgot.

I will say this, I am surprised that it is so easy to get varsity games in many places. I would have thought it would take longer. But I guess there really is a shortage in many places.

Peace

stan,
these were 3 man crews in florida highschool ball. the association that i began working with started assigning 3 man crews the first yr i began (from what i have read/heard i started out in a very lucky situation).
welcome,
tony

Stan, their are several states that use 3 man for high school. Surprisingly, most of them are in the South. NC, SC, TN, GA, FL, and AL all use 3 man crews. And there may be others. That's not only playoff games but regular seasons. It's mandatory in NC, I'm not sure about the other states. We're considered to be behind the times and poorly funded in so many things in the South, yet we've found a way to have 3 man in high school basketball.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 11th, 2002 at 04:38 PM]

We are beginning to use 3-man for our larger HS Varsity games here in the Ft. Worth, TX, area. For instance, we now use 3-man for our 4A and 5A divisions (boys & girls), the two largest divisions. Right now it is still in the experimental stages. We are still trying to get some of the more reluctant coaches "on board". A few coaches were skeptical that the benefits of an extra official would not out-weigh the added expense. To convince these skeptics, we agreed to work the games using 3 officials for the same game fee as the school paid for two officials (in other words, we took a pay cut). If the coaches are not convinced after two seasons that the benefits out-weigh the extra cost, we will return to 2-man mechanics. But we still use 2-man mechanics in far more games than 3-man.

Very common here.
 

This is the 6th year I believe that the IHSA has had playoffs with 3 man in both boy's and girl's basketball in all classes (only two classes). Most down state or at least many more than in the Chicago area had 3 person for years. This will be my 7th year in basketball and I have done 3 man games for at least 4 years on a regular basis. When I moved up to the Chicago area, not a single game during the regular season was 3 man (unless tournament). Last year was the first year that almost all conferences had 3 man during the regular season. Now do not have a single varsity game that is not 3 man. I have more lower level college games that have two officials then HS games. This is the only state that is like this I am aware of until the last couple of years.

Peace

Oh yeah, the original topic...as someone already posted before, in TX you simply have to demonstrate your proficiency on the court to receive Varsity games. Every official in our chapter is evaluated. If that evaluation reflects you are ready to do varsity level games then you could be doing varsity games that season. If you got the experience officiating church ball, rec ball, or kangaroo ball (whatever that is), it makes no difference. The Assigner makes the final decision. If the Assigner has enough officials to cover varsity games, you could work a JV schedule the first year (or part of the year) until the Assigner is more comfortable with your ability.

Most UIL high school games in TX are assigned by Assigners. UIL (University Interscholastic League) is the governing body that regulates all HS athletic and non-athletic events (B-ball, soccer, band, debate team, solo & ensemble competition, the number of school days a student can miss while participating in one of these events, etc.). UIL has acknowledged only one association that is approved to provide athletic officials to any UIL schools. It's my understanding, if you are a member in good-standing of a TASO chapter, then you can work any level of B-ball in TX public schools. TAPPS (TX Assoc of Parochial & Private Schools) regulates private schools. These schools contract directly with any official's organization in their area. It's up to the TASO chapter to assign the official to the games comensurate to their level of experience.

Having said that, we here in TX have a little "thang" known as the "scratch" system. It is the most archaic, antiquated, inequitable, and arbitrary system I have ever had the misfortune of coming across (for those of you who are still unsure whether I like this system or not...I do not). A coach can "scratch" any number of officials, at any time, for any reason, or for no reason. For instance, if you work a game and have a bad night (or you are assigned a game above your level of expertise), you could get "scratched" by the coach. A coach might even scratch you from his list if he doesn't know who you are (for new officials to the chapter). The coach will call your Assigner and tell him (or her) that you are no longer to do their games for the remainder of the season. However, the coaches have abused the system. And, to be honest, our chapter has not yet taken a stand to limit the number and frequency of scratches the coaches can perform. Suffice it to say, if you claim to be able to work varsity games but can not, you might get a few, but the liklihood that you will work more in the future is very low.

[Edited by rpirtle on Jul 11th, 2002 at 03:54 PM]

It is that easy?
 

Is this "scratch" system authorized by the state, or is the assignors responsible for this?

We have ways coaches can evaluate or "scratch" officials, but usually the assignors set their own standards. Some will, others will not at all. Depends on the conference or assignor themselves.

Peace

In SD, there really isn't any reason you couldn't work Varsity High School games in the first year - if you are good enough. There is only one conference that assigns games through an assignor - and you basically have to attend his ref camp to get assigned. Other than that, the Athletic Directors contact officials directly and that official finds his partner. I've taken out a first year official (first year of being registered/certified w/the SDHSAA). This official had worked junior high, YMCA ball, etc. before getting registered with the state. His judgement was fine, just had to work on mechanics and positioning a little, but even then it was a good refresher for me to see if I was in the "proper" position on the court.
As far as three-man crews, only the largest league does it in boys, but it sounds as if they might try it in all three classes in the state tournament.

Scratch System
 

The UIL states that the officials must be approved by both coaches for any varsity game. The coaches can reject an official up to a certain number of days before a game. The politics are fearce when it comes to officials. It gets even worse come playoff time. I have heard of two teams bringing officials clear across the state to call a playoff game because they can't agree on anyone local.

and then we get into...
 

One coach scratches an official because the other coach has him on his request list, so then the other coach scratches HIS requested official...and then the game playin begins...you see how it is a PITA to be an assignor in Tx?

Re: Scratch System
 

Officials are generally assigned from the other side of the state for playoffs in my area.

Of course, Connecticut is many times smaller than Texas - we can drive from one side to the other :D. (What is the reimbursement for airfare?)

In my association in northern VA, first year officials will mostly (about 90% of the time), only do rec ball. In your second year, you will be assigned frosh/jv games. In order to move to the varsity level, we are "invited" to participate in a summer evaluation league (boys varsity) and be evaluated. The invitation is based on your ratings from the winter season. Individuals selected to move up are put on the "swing list" which means you are eligible to work varsity games, but you might also work frosh/jv games. Usually after a year or so on the swing list, we move to the "varsity" list. Now, once again, varsity officials may work a freshman game at one school and later that day work a varsity game at another school, depending upon whether you are available to do the early game. Some of our officials do this quite often. Transfers (who have worked varisty games) are evaluated by some of our senior varsity officials and then placed accordingly. You must score at least 85 on your exam to be eligible to work varsity. We have one assignor for all scholastic games and one assignor for rec ball. We cannot obtain games on our own. The association has contracts with several rec leagues and with 95% of the high schools in the area. I can work as much or as little as I want to work. We are fortunate in this area that basketball is a year-round thing.

Re: Re: Scratch System
 

In Colorado, a playoff game between Denver and Boulder would involve a Colorado Springs official. 80 miles away. But that is not clear across the state. Here, I saw two teams that were twenty miles from each other import officials from 150 miles. No I have not seen them take El Paso Officials and bring them to East Texas but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.