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Old Fri Jun 26, 2009, 08:12pm
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Closely Guarded Dilemma

What say all of you re this situation that happened at a summer camp today. Boys V, 30 sec left in 2nd half. Team A has 6 point lead and the ball just past mid court in the left corner. A1 still dribbling in the corner as B1 comes up to defend. I start chopping for closely guarded. A1 dribbles parallel to mid court, never making move towards bucket. B1 follows A1 (it looks like they are playing follow the leader, A1 being the leader), within 4-5 feet all the way to the opposite side of court. B's coach is screaming for a five second call. I stopped my chop as I deemed B1 was no longer in legal guarding position. Did I boot the call?
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Old Fri Jun 26, 2009, 09:09pm
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1. What did he do to lose LGP?
2. LGP isn't technically required. All that's required is that he be guarding him from within 6 feet.
3. If the offensive player is walking away and the defender is following, that's guarding in my book.

Answer: I would have continued the count.
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Old Fri Jun 26, 2009, 10:15pm
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Closely Guarded ...

NFHS 4-10: A closely guarded situation occurs when a player in control of the ball in his/her team’s frontcourt, is continuously guarded by any opponent who is within six feet of the player who is holding or dribbling the ball. The distance shall be measured from the forward foot/feet of the defender to the forward foot/feet of the ball handler. A closely guarded count shall be terminated when the offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past the defensive player.

NFHS 9-10: CLOSELY GUARDED
ART. 1 . A player shall not while closely guarded:
a. In his/her frontcourt, hold the ball for five seconds or dribble the ball for five seconds.
b. In his/her frontcourt, control the ball for five seconds in an area enclosed by screening teammates.
ART. 2 . A closely guarded count shall not be started during an interrupted dribble.
ART. 3 . A closely guarded count shall be terminated during an interrupted dribble.
PENALTY: (Section 10) The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.
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Old Sat Jun 27, 2009, 02:41am
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9.10.1 SITUATION C: Team A has the ball in its own frontcourt. B1 stands within
6 feet and facing A1 while A1 is holding the ball near the division line. RULING:
In five seconds this would be a violation. In the situation outlined, as soon as B1
has assumed a guarding position, both feet on the court, facing the opponent, no
other specific requirement is in effect. The amount of movement or the actual
body position of the player is irrelevant.
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Old Sat Jun 27, 2009, 11:43am
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I was told once by a veteran official that a player owns their space "all the way up to the ceiling" and if another player protrudes into that space and then there is contact caused by the first player, it is the second players fault and, depending on the severity of the contact, could be a foul.
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Old Sat Jun 27, 2009, 04:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Refner View Post
I was told once by a veteran official that a player owns their space "all the way up to the ceiling" and if another player protrudes into that space and then there is contact caused by the first player, it is the second players fault and, depending on the severity of the contact, could be a foul.
And this relates to the closely-guarded question how?
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Old Sat Jun 27, 2009, 05:38pm
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
And this relates to the closely-guarded question how?
OOOPS, sorry. I prepared that answer for another thread (L of a play) and just started typing without thinking.

Maybe I should get some meds from Padgett.
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Old Sun Jun 28, 2009, 01:46pm
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A bit of a rephrase

I do know how the rule is written. However, I have never seen an official make a five second call on a player who is not advancing to the basket and his defender is squarely behind him (not uncommon when teams are trying to run down the clock). In fact, in watching many games during this summer tournament, I rarely saw refs chop on closely guarded at all? JW - how many closely guarded calls do you all make in the course of a normal varsity game?
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Old Sun Jun 28, 2009, 07:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmeadski View Post
I do know how the rule is written. However, I have never seen an official make a five second call on a player who is not advancing to the basket and his defender is squarely behind him (not uncommon when teams are trying to run down the clock). In fact, in watching many games during this summer tournament, I rarely saw refs chop on closely guarded at all? JW - how many closely guarded calls do you all make in the course of a normal varsity game?
One or two at most, but an offense player retreating from the defender is not sufficient reason to cease your count. By not rewarding good defense in this way, you're opening the game up to rough play.

And I have made this call.
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Old Sun Jun 28, 2009, 07:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
One or two at most, but an offense player retreating from the defender is not sufficient reason to cease your count. By not rewarding good defense in this way, you're opening the game up to rough play.

And I have made this call.
Agreed. I've made it too. Most recently, Saturday.
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Old Sun Jun 28, 2009, 09:55pm
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On CG situations, I don't get out a tape measure and check the exact distance if the defender is not at least "harassing" the offensive player with the ball. By this, I mean, the defender may technically be within the 6 foot guideline but not actually be doing any guarding if the offensive player is not really reacting to the defender. I'm not going to reward the defense for not actually defending. However, the threshold for actually playing defense isn't all that great. He doesn't have to be a good defender, just a defender.

Also, "past the defensive player" doesn't necessarily mean "toward the basket." Perhaps this is an editorial change the committee needs to address.
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Old Sun Jun 28, 2009, 11:25pm
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
9.10.1 SITUATION C: Team A has the ball in its own frontcourt. B1 stands within
6 feet and facing A1 while A1 is holding the ball near the division line. RULING:
In five seconds this would be a violation. In the situation outlined, as soon as B1
has assumed a guarding position, both feet on the court, facing the opponent, no
other specific requirement is in effect.
The amount of movement or the actual
body position of the player is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie View Post
On CG situations, I don't get out a tape measure and check the exact distance if the defender is not at least "harassing" the offensive player with the ball. By this, I mean, the defender may technically be within the 6 foot guideline but not actually be doing any guarding if the offensive player is not really reacting to the defender. I'm not going to reward the defense for not actually defending. However, the threshold for actually playing defense isn't all that great. He doesn't have to be a good defender, just a defender.

Also, "past the defensive player" doesn't necessarily mean "toward the basket." Perhaps this is an editorial change the committee needs to address.

2006-07 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

5. Rules Enforcement and Proper Use of Signals. The committee has seen a movement away from the consistent application of rule enforcement and use of approved mechanics/signals.
A. Rules Enforcement. Officials need to be aware that personal interpretations of the rules have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risks to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and deviations from the rules as written negatively impact the basic fundamentals and tenants of the rules.
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Old Mon Jun 29, 2009, 06:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie View Post
On CG situations, I don't get out a tape measure and check the exact distance if the defender is not at least "harassing" the offensive player with the ball. By this, I mean, the defender may technically be within the 6 foot guideline but not actually be doing any guarding if the offensive player is not really reacting to the defender. I'm not going to reward the defense for not actually defending. However, the threshold for actually playing defense isn't all that great. He doesn't have to be a good defender, just a defender.

Also, "past the defensive player" doesn't necessarily mean "toward the basket." Perhaps this is an editorial change the committee needs to address.
The rule book does mention getting by the defenders shoulders. Do you all read that to mean past the plane formed by his shoulders (N - S plane), or, by his shoulders on the E-W plane?
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Old Mon Jun 29, 2009, 08:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmeadski View Post
The rule book does mention getting by the defenders shoulders. Do you all read that to mean past the plane formed by his shoulders (N - S plane), or, by his shoulders on the E-W plane?
I'm not sure what your directional markings are supposed to indicate.

Perimeter defenders set up between an offensive player and the basket. If the offensive player has the ball and the defender is within 6', you count. If the ball carrier is dribbling around the perimeter and the defender stays within 6', you continue the count. If the player drives the basket and gets past the defender, you stop the count.

That's not hard. Don't make it so.
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Old Mon Jun 29, 2009, 02:09pm
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E-W vs N-S

There are senior officials who preach that they will not cal a CG if the play is moving E-W nor will they call Hand Checking when the play is moving E-W.
They consider both of them as 'game interupters'.
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