Answering 'Rules' questions during a game
 

Backdrop: Locally there was an HS regional softball (girls fast-pitch) play-off that ended when the winning run scored because of an illegal pitch. The illegal pitch was caused by the defensive coach placing a fielder behind the catcher.

Supposedly the coach asked the plate umpire before the play if this positioning was legal and his response was "Coach you can do whatever you want".

So, in our b-ball games, how do you handle similar type situations? If a coach asks if he can do "XYZ" would you quote the rule or give the answer allegedly given above.

What if the coach were to ask "What does the rule book say about 'XYZ'?"

If it is a quick question during a timeout or other stoppage that doesn't slow us down, I don't have a problem answering it. Ignoring the question, watching them do the wrong thing and calling the violation just opens up more trouble that you could have easily avoided with a 15 second answer to the initial question. But that's just me -

I'll answer a direct question anytime.

Provided it's asked in the appropriate manner, I have no problem communicating with coaches. This time of year there always seems to be a plethora of concerns :rolleyes:

Coach: Do we get it at half court?

In 3-5 years if they are fortunate enough, absolutely. But not today sir/ma'am.

Coach: Can we run the baseline?

Absolutely, but I'll call the violation because there was not a made basket.


Saying "coach you can do whatever you want" & then making the call against them when they do it, is not good GM.

Agreed, especially when the ump new this move would decide the game (and if I read the OP correctly he must have). At least in basketball our actions never DIRECTLY decide the outcome of a game (ie. a FT must still be made after a technical) so if we give an answer like this it's almost a little more excusable. I find this action as bad as it gets as he knew this would end the game and it didn't have to be that way.

In your opinion it would have been OK if it happened in the 3rd inning and the defensive team was up by 5 runs?

No, I guess what I meant was that the ump new that by giving the coach this response he was more than creating an advantage, he was giving runs to one team. This crappy situation was completely preventable.

I would never think of giving such an arrogant answer to a question about a rule, regardless of the situation. By doing so you are making the choice to forego an opportunity to teach and be a good steward of the game. Do you disagree? I'm not saying I would sit and explain the entire rule from A to Z. Certainly a "That would be an illegal move, coach. I can explain why between innings." would have done the trick.

I'd certainly tell him he could do "XYZ", but not "YMCA", especially if he was going to use costumes and music.

http://gaygamer.net/images/ymca.jpg

It gets worse.

YouTube - Faces Of Disco - Britains Got Talent 2009 Ep 6

I basically agree with you. For me it all depends on what/how the coach is communicating. If he/she just makes a statement "I'm going to blah-blah-blah" then I won't say anything. But if they ask "Is blah-blah-blah permissable by rule" then I would give a rulebook related answer.

In the softball situation from the OP I don't know what was actually said by any of the parties.

If a coach doesn't come to a contest prepared with solid rules knowledge that is a detriment to his team. I don't believe that it is the game official's duty to help him, and his team, through his ignorance.

I would likely respond by telling the coach that it would inappropriate for me to provide information that would alter or aide in his coaching strategy. Those are choices that he has to make on his own and possibly learn as he goes.

Slightly Off Topic, Slightly On Topic ???
 

This kind of reminds me something that happened to my Babe Ruth baseball team (13, 14, 15 years old) back in the late 1960's. It was mid season. My team, Orange Diagnostic, hadn't won a game. The opposing team that night, Giordano's, also had not won a game, our early season match-up had been rained out. We were both desperate to win our first game, and one team would do so that night. Lots of excitement in the air. The opposing coach, Mr. Atkinson, I remember his name forty years later, watched our best pitcher, Gary Rispoli, now an IAABO official here in Connecticut, take his warmup tosses, before the top of the first inning was to begin. After Gary's first real pitch, Mr. Atkinson came out of his dugout, with an official Babe Ruth rule book in his hand, and approached the umpire. Back then, there were all kinds of rules regarding how many innings pitchers could toss in a week, and how many days rest they had to have between pitching at least one pitch in a game. Our coach has miscalculated the days off rule due to a madeup rain out game, but Mr. Atkinson knew that Gary had pitched a few innings only a few days ago, and didn't get the required rest. Mr. Atkinson demanded a forfeit, and the umpire gave it to him. He could have protested before Gary's first pitch, and our coach would have put in another pitcher. No baseball game that night. We all went home. Mr. Atkinson's team got their first win of the season, and we went winless the rest of the season, 0 W -15 L. I remember the situation like it was yesterday.

Look up poor sportsmanship in the dictionary, and you'll see a picture of Mr. Atkinson, the coach of the 1967, Giordano's, Orange, Connecticut, Babe Ruth baseball team. And, boy, does he look proud of himself in that photo.

I will answer a quick question, but I will not give a clinic. If the coach insists on asking such questions, he will have to take a TO and then he has 30 or 60 seconds to get his answer.

Saddest part of the story. At 13-15 years old, even his own players had to feel cheated, especially when you're playing only 15 games a season. Musta been some bad blood between the coaches, or was this guy just that miserable of a human being?

Nevada - you never fail to deliver!

Just answer the dang question!

I simply answer the question the best way without going into too much detail. If is before the game this is easier to do. If it is during the game it is much harder and the answer might be shorter. Most of all the way and how I answer is determined by the person asking the question with their professionalism and demeanor. Just because they ask a question does not mean they need an answer. That is not our primary job. But if they ask us when we are not preoccupied and we have are able to answer, why not answer a question on some level.

Peace

I STRONGLY recommend you do NOT make these kinds of comments. One thing I've learned is that my sense of humor is not often shared by others, even if its just a time and place discrepancy. Just answer yes or no to questions called for it. Later, if things are light and there's a few seconds for a follow up comment, you can say your other comment if you think its appropriate, but never use it in a primary answer.

And you let that stop you?!?!?!?!?! :eek:

I appreciate your concern, I might be SOME dumb but I'm not PLUM dumb :)

Before that exchange I clearly said "this time of year". I try to educate coaches, players & fans alike in the off-season. Some of the things I do or say during this time of year, I would NEVER do in a real game situation.
But, when I see some of these same people during the season, it's always love, because of the time I took to explain this or that during the summer months.

Of course you also gotta know who you're dealing with when answering a stupid question with a smart-a$$ remark.

Also, not that I'm in it for the money, but if you're gonna pay me 1/3 of in-season pay rates... ummm we're ALL going to have some fun on my court.

I'm pretty good with my communication skills, so I tend to stay out of trouble. T'd exactly 0 coaches last season & I had all the coaches with big, bad reps.

I don't get this kind of logic. If you agree to work a game for 1/3 of in-season pay rates, why do you think that entitles you to do 1/3 the job you signed up for? If you don't want to work for that rate, don't work. But if you accept the game at that rate, you are getting paid to do the job, so do the job. Don't half-a$$ it.

he's not 1/2 assing it....he's 1/3 assing it!! :)

Dang Smitty, are you serious? I had to go back & re-read what I really said. I still can't figure how you came to the conclusion that I'm "half-a$$ing it." :confused:

I drip sweat no matter what time of the year it is!
I hustle to the endline to receive the play, I position adjust for angles year around! I work hard each & every game!!!

You totally misunderstood... I put up with much less BS (whinning, ignorant coaches/players/fanatics) when I'm not paid accordingly for MY TIME is all I was saying.

I never disrespect the GAME!
Game 1st, partners 2nd & myself last is the approach from Jan to Dec :rolleyes:

If you say so...it's just interesting that you had to put it that way.

When someone starts off by saying "It's not about the money" and then proceeds to whine about the money, it's kind of like saying "I don't mean to be rude, but you're an idiot". Just because you declare it, doesn't make it so. Guess what? If you complain about the money, it's about the money.

And the sheer fact that you mentioned that you changed something because of making less money implies that you give it less of an effort. That's how it comes across to me anyway. Had you said something about it being summer so you're less formal in your approach with players, coaches and fans, I would maybe buy your argument. But the sheer fact that you made it about the money implied to me that you put in that much less of an effort.

That's how I came to my conclusion. If I'm wrong, sorry. *shrug*

As long as my assignors & I know what's really real is all that matters now isn't it.

I work hard 4-6 nights a week in the regular/post season, with the same work ethic 4-6 nights a week in the off season.
This is what I was born to do & I absolutely love the craft. Respecting the game is what my foundation is based upon.

If you read the ENTIRE thread you would see that the particular post you cut & pasted was addressing a previous poster who tried to warn me about the informal comments I make to coaches, during this time of year. ie: Summertime

I'll keep attending multiple camps & continue working on competing against myself to beat the tape while enjoying the ride on the fast track ;)

Even though you were absolutely wrong, no need to apologize. It is what it is :D

Take care!

But then you did it again. First you contradicted yourself. You stated everyone has more fun because you don't make as much money. And then you said you don't take any BS because you don't make as much money. So maybe the only person having any fun is you? I'm confused.

Then you made a point once again to complain about being paid "accordingly for your time". You definitely have an issue about the money, which again implies that you put in less than your best effort when you feel like you're not being paid "accordingly for your time". In big bold letters no less.

And for what it's worth (which is probably nothing), I thought your informal comments were inappropriate as well for the questions you were answering. Not because I think they're rude, but because I think they add more confusion than help.

I can't argue whether you are a hard worker on the court in the summertime because I don't know you. But what you say and how you say it implies something different to me than what you're trying to convey. So take it for what it's worth (which is probably still nothing). :)

You most certainly are :) And as I previously stated:

Good day!

I believe that any reasonable question deserves a reasonable response.

If a coach asks for clarification on a rules interpretation, I always start the reply: "By rule.... ". But rather than quote the rule, I use "rules verbiage."

"Coach, by rule, the ball is placed at the point of interruption on an intentional foul."

I like this because it puts a coach in the position of choosing to disagree with the rules vs. disagreeing with our interpretation. Of course, the key to using this is you better know the rule. :>

Like when there is an intentional foul, by rule, the offended team gets the ball at the spot nearest the foul after the free throws? :eek::D

Actually, I'm not sure it is ever POI on an intentional foul. Maybe if there is a double intentional.

I was kinda wondering myself where he was going with that.

I changed mine to eliminate the statement in parentheses, although my point was that POI and the spot closest to the foul are generally close enough to each other to be the same location.

The obviously not POI times are - foul away from the ball, foul by an offensive player and a foul on a made try.

Intentional fouls on a person with player control will result in the location being very close to POI, and my experience has shown that these make up a majority of intentional fouls.

The "Point Of Interruption" is not a location.

As has been pointed out, POI is not a location. It's more involved. While spot of the foul and POI may in fact lead to a similar conclusion, they are not the same thing. Personal fouls (including the intentional and flagrant ones) are always "spot of the foul," unless they are doubles.