Odd situation from my last tournament.
 

I will do my best to explain this one, although figuring out how to explain it is a little tough. It kind of caught me by surprise, and I am honestly interested in the take some of you may have about how this went down.

I was a coaching a 16U boys game at a tournament out of state. Three man crew, and two of the three had called a couple of my earlier games. I rarely speak to officials during games other than for clarification, and my experience with the two had been great.

The game was going well for my team, we were winning a tight one, and I had not made any comments to any of the officials. Late in the 2nd half, my PG was called for a push off while going to the basket. I had no comment on the call (it happened across the court and I didn't see what happened real well). I did feel that #23 from the opposing team had been pushing off earlier, and I asked the ref closest to me (he happened to be one of the ones I had earlier in the tournament) if they could "watch #23 for the push off." The ref I directed the comment to acknowledged my comment, and nothing more was said. He was maybe 3-4 feet from me, and my comment was made in a conversational voice.

We go to haltime, leading by 6. During the half, two of the officials exited the gym, but the third did not, and he happened to be the one who made the push-off call. He came up to me during the half, put his arm around me from the side, and muttered something to me that I couldn't make out. He had a bit of an accent, and it wasn't until he finally spoke up that I got what he was telling me.

Him: "Coach, if you say that again, I am ejecting you from the gym."

Me: "Say what again?"

Him: "You know what you said, and I am giving you a friendly warning. I hear it again, you are gone."

Me: "I have no idea what you are talking about."

Him: "When you were talking to my partner, you said my call was 'b***s***'. I am letting you off this time, but next time I am ejecting you."

At this point, I am stunned. I never said that, and frankly, I never even thought it.

Me: " What? I didn't say that."

Him: "No need to lie. I am letting it go with a warning."

Me: "You don't need to warn me, because I didn't say that! I don't swear on the bench!"

Him: "Yes, you did. I heard you from across the gym. You need to quit lying about it, and accept my warning."

Okay, at this point, I admit I am losing my cool.

Me: "I never said anything like that! I asked your partner to watch the push off on 23. That was all. Your partner would have T'd me if I said anything close to that!"

Him: "You are raising your voice to me. You have to coach another half with me as your referee, so watch yourself. I tried to give you a friendly warning, but you don't want it. I will not be as nice in the second half."

He then exits the gym, and I am now boiling mad. Now, the two referees I had in the previous games were old school guys. By the book, take nothing from nobody, and there was no way either would have let me say a call was BS and get away with it. I also should mention that in general, I was very pleased with the style of game these guys were calling, and there was no way I was looking for drama at that point.

I was also a little stuck as to what to do. My assistant and the table staff both overheard the tail end of this conversation, and all were stunned by what I was being accused of, and we couldn't figure out where this was coming from. I was uncomfortable with this guy waiting to approach me after his partners left the gym, his putting his arm around me (just kind of a weird thing to do), and receiving a "last warning" for something that never happened.

Rather than posting what happened next, my question to the board is what do you think I should have done at this point?

If I was the official you spoke with originally, I wouldn't have minded if you approached me prior to the start of the second half, explained what happened and then asked me to approach the other official to tell him he misheard you.

If, as you say, he had an accent, perhaps he just thought you said "b***s***" instead of "push off". To someone for whom English might be a second language who was standing some distance away, it might have sounded like that.

An alternative would have been to contact the immigration and naturalization service after the game to have them check on the guy's legal status. :cool:

Also, if the guy called me a liar, I would have smacked him upside the head with a frying pan.

I would not have said a word to him the rest of the game; at all. And I would have reported him to the tournament directors. If the opportunity arose, I would have made a point of not talking to him, to be honest, to avoid any possibility of him mis-hearing you.

Did You Say Old School ???
 

He may have heard one of the fans behind the bench. And I agree with Mark Padgett, under certain, very rare, conditions, "Push off" could, and I'm pushing the envelope here, sound like "B*** s***".

The fans were all on the gym opposite of where I was sitting.

I do agree about the "push off" maybe being misunderstood across the gym.

Here is how I handled it.

After the referee in question exited the gym, I approached the site director who heard all of this while standing at the scorers' table, and asked him to let the head of the crew know that I would like to speak with all 3 officials before the second half started. He agreed this was probably a good idea, and said he would take care of it.

The crew, the opposing coach, and I all met in front of the table. I explained to the other two what had happened at halftime, and asked the ref I was speaking with during the game if I said the dreaded "BS" words. He said absoultely not, and told his partner I did not even question the call, and that I only asked that they watch for a push off from a certain number.

I am thinking this closes the matter, but the ref who made the accusation then chimes in, and says "I heard what I heard, and no matter what anyone says, I know what you said." He starts to continue, but I cut him off, and told him that it was never said, his partner who I allegedly said it to didn't hear it, and that he could warn me all he wanted, as I don't speak like that to the referees of my games. I exited the meeting at that point, as did the other coach.

The three officials stayed at center court a few more minutes, and they got into what seemed to be a heated discussion themselves, and then we started the game.

The gentleman I had an issue with gave me "the stare down" whenever he passed by in the 3rd quarter, but there were no further incidents, and we won by a comfortable margin.

This guy seems like a prime suspect for waterboarding.

This is America, we don't torture....my suggestion would be take him across the border then waterboard him....

OK then, how about making him listen to a game with Bob Knight, Dick Vitale, and Billy Packer as announcers?

Well, how many lessons can we take from this fine fellow? While officiating:

1. Don't confront coaches based on what you thought you might have heard.

2. Don't issue warnings in the form of a conditional ("If you X, then I'm ejecting you.").

3. Don't argue.

4. Don't accuse anyone of lying.

5. Don't ever threaten.

Any others?

What you did sounds fair.
 

Like his partners did, "Get in, get done, get out."

6. Don't ask for a conference w/ all three officials and the opposing head coach and embarass one person in front of the whole group....what do you expect to happen? do you think the official in question will feel good about that?

Frankly, I think the official had it coming here; and his feelings don't matter at this point. He just called the coach a liar with no basis. Frankly, I'd like to think my response would have been as measured as the coach's was here.

That would still be torture...his ears would literally pop to the point of bleeding! :D

As an official, I am embarassed.
 

By the behaviour of the rogue ref in the OP? Not so much.

By the mention of a 'bit of an accent' being parlayed into suggestions of an immigration check then on to rendition and torture... yeah, that will do it.

I know attempts at humor can be misconstrued, but I'm cringing at the tenor of this thread.

My 2 cents.

All true, but the coach would run the risk of further angering the official, who has already demonstrated less than ideal ability to hear and understand what he's heard. This could easily lead that official to seek revenge....perhaps tossing the coach for something not at all justified....perhaps for telling his team to run a 2-1-2 zone defense....choosing to hear that as "You're a G...D... M..... F...... <INSERT slur ethnic racial random any>".

The only thing that seems to have prevented that is it appears the other two refs took the guy to mid-court gave him a few "suggestions" before resuming.

Good grief.

I thought about that before requesting the conference. However, I was already concerned that was a distinct possibility, and I thought the best way to prevent any further incident was to 1.) Give him a chance to hear his partner state what was said earlier, and 2.) Give the other two a heads up that there was an issue between me and ref #3, and that I was trying to diffuse it.

And what would your advice for the coach have been?

Same as the rogue official's advice; an implied, "shut up, coach."

Unprofessionalism
 

On behalf of officials everywhere, let me apologize for such unprofessional behavior.

In addition to the points mentioned by other members, I would NEVER, EVER, touch a coach other than the pregame handshake.

When the official went solo, he threw himself under the bus. Listening to Packer et al doing one of HIS games should be the punishment. I would think that the OP was not the only coach to get the treatment from that particular official on that particular day.

This was my feeling as well.

Coach, I thought you did the right thing in requesting a conference with everyone - all three officials and the other coach. This way, anything that is said is out in the open in front of everyone, and not just between two people where things could be mis-interpreted. This also eliminated the perception that you were simply trying to play one official over the other if you were to only talk to the original official.

This is also a good idea for officials in general - if there is any general issue that needs to be addressed, do it in front of both coaches, if not also in front of your partner(s). Coaches, (being the paranoid creatures they are...) are less likely to feel like something is "going on" if they are included in the conversation.

Sounds like a narrative from Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom.

"While I sit back here safely hidden in the brush, Jim Fowler is going to see how close he can come to the rabid alligator..."

Yeah. That's what I remember. Would've been the other way around had Jim been doing the commercials. But Marlin looked to be about 88 and if HE could get life insurance......

When did this turn into the baseball board?

Guess you're not talking to some of us, who might be baritones. :p

So It's Really Not As Risky As It Sounds ...
 

Jim would know that only warm blooded animals carry rabies.

Now Z'ing, That's Another Story ...
 

I seldom eject a coach for X'ing.

No, but I've eject many for F'ing, as in "You're f'ing terrible". Of course, they were directing that at my partner. ;)

What about Y'ing? :D

Or even worse...Rollie Massimino....the only thing worse than listening to Rollie broadcast a game, is having to listen to him on the bench....;)

I had something with some similarities happen in football last year. Late in the game with the V behind, H had the ball on their ~40. The clock was running and V's coaches were yelling out signals. My HL thought he heard a TO call and stopped the clock and I (the R), anticipating some time outs, started to give the signal to the box when the coaches start yelling that they didn't call the TO but yelled something that might sound like that as a signal to their players. I immediately blew my whistle and yelled, "no time out, let's play ball" and got the offense back into their formation. I then blew the ready and wound the clock, so in fact, the Home team got an 8-10 second advantage as it turned out.

We finished the game (H won) and in the locker room, one of the crew members (not the HL) INSISTED that he heard the TO. He was adamant that it happened and said I was mistaken to not stick them with it. I said that the coaches' response was very quick and due to the look on their faces seemed reasonable, so I surmised they didn't call timeout. After a 5 minute discussion when even the HL is insisting they didn't call TO but HE made the mistake, the BJ won't let it go, so I did.

There are people that don't believe anyone but their own idiotic self.

I know just what you mean. I can't tell you how many games I've worked in which teams called out plays like "five out", etc. It can drive ya nuts.

LOL! One of the first things we go over with our new coaches is to never, ever name a play using the word "out", or anything even close.

I think the coach handled this situation as good as he could. If he didn't do anything, he had already basically been threatened and was on this ice. By calling the official out, be at least brought some integrity to the situation and put everyone on notice concerning a potential problem.

I would have asked my partner(s) what the coach said before approaching the coach. Also, I think the coach should have told the official to take his hands off of him as soon as the conversation went south.

And By Recent, I Mean The Past Four, Or Five Years ...
 

Didn't the NFHS come out with a recent interpretation of this situation?

5.8.3 SITUATION E: A1 is dribbling the ball in his/her backcourt when the Team A head coach is yelling "side out" offensive instructions to his/her team and the official stops play believing the coach requested a timeout.

RULING:An accidental whistle has occurred. Team A was not requesting a time-out, and therefore, should not be granted or charged with one. Play is resumed at the point of interruption.

Just Couldn't Put My Finger On It ...
 

just another ref: Thanks. Nice research. Nice citation.

Research?? What makes you think I didn't quote this from memory?:D

Scenario: A1 is holding the ball in the front court and being closely guarded by B1 with less than 1 minute in the game Team A up by 2. As I'm nearing 5 on a 5 second count I hear what I thought was a time out request from Coach A. I blow the whistle and point to the bench and state timeout. Coach A who obviously isn't the smartest says "I didn't call a timeout, I don't want a timeout" even though he has 2 remaining. I say "ok so you don't want the timeout". He says "no". I say "ok, we have a 5 second count violation, (Team B's) ball."

Question: Based on the above case play I was wrong to call the violation. My thing at the time was the coach said what sounded to me and my partner to be a call for a timeout and considering the play and the score it was pretty reasonable to expect a timeout called. If I follow the point of interruption rule to the letter it would be Team A's ball on a throw in, correct? How fair is that? Is it reasonable to wonder what if coaches started using this non-timeout tactic to their advantage?:confused:

1. make sure he wants a timeout. It's okay to hear the request, hit your 5 second count, and verify by looking at the coach he wanted the TO before granting it. A coach in this situation will almost always give the signal and the words for this request.

2. Whether you made a mistake depends on whether you actually got to 5 seconds prior to blowing the whistle. If you blew before hitting 5, you should give A the ball back. It may not seem fair, but it's not fair to penalize them prematurely either. A1 could have thrown a pass just before you got to 5.

Wild Kingdom Rocks!!!
 

I loved that show. Sunday night, a bowl of popcorn, life was good back then.:)

Ditto...and being a Nebraska boy, it was enjoyable for me because Mutual of Omaha is a Nebraska company, and was a sponsor of the Huskers back then (and still is).