What's your call?

Pirate · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 01, 2000, 03:06am

This situation came up at one of our association meetings. What's your call if?

A5 and B5 are ready to tip the jump ball to start a game. A5 tips the ball first, followed immediately by B5 who tips the ball, (both tips occur before the ball hits the floor) with A5 eventually catching the basketball after B5's tip.

Obviously we have a violation on A5, (with B inbounding) but the real question is who gets the AP????? Do you give it back to B based on the idea that A secured possession and then violated??? Or do you give the AP to A based on the idea that B had first possession with the throw in??? Thanks for your input.

Mark Padgett · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 01, 2000, 04:05am

This is in the casebook somewhere and has come up before. Under NF rules, if A1 grabs the tip before he is legally entitled to, it is considered establishing first possession for team A plus it is a violation. Team B gets the ball and the AP arrow.

BTW - on Saturday, after A1 had tipped the opening jump, the ball hit my partner who was tossing, then A1 grabbed the ball. No violation since the ball hitting my partner was the same as the ball hitting the floor, but I had to think for a second. Never had that happen before.

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 01, 2000, 10:27am

Mark is correct. The casebook reference is 6.3.1C(d).

In NCAA, one team gets the ball, the other team gets the arrow.

CFred · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 02, 2000, 11:57pm

quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins on 03-01-2000 09:27 AM

In NCAA, one team gets the ball, the other team gets the arrow.

Not quite. In NCAA, the illegal possession of the jump ball by A5 is ignored. B1, the thrower on the throw-in, is the first person to have legal possession of the ball.

A will get the arrow, but...A does not get the arrow until B's throw-in ends (Interpretation 6-2 Play 5).

Todd VandenAkker · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 03, 2000, 10:02am

Hmmm....I don't have my book along, but seems to me NF and NCAA agree with respect to how the AP arrow is established. And in this jump ball violation scenario, the AP arrow is set as soon as the ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower-in, NOT when the throw-in is actually completed. If the throw-in team were to violate, thereby not completing the throw-in, the arrow would remain pointing in the other team's direction.

Brian Watson · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 03, 2000, 03:33pm

I dont have the book in front of me either but, causing a violation, does not establish team possession, (for example, B1 is standing on the base line and taps the ball out of A1s hand. Violation on B, but no team B possession). I would give B the ball with A getting the arrow. Its a tough call. Pop Quiz. Earlier in the year I had a tap go to an open spot on the floor with A and B diving simultaneously to the ball for a tie up. No possession and a tough call right away. We re-jumped the two girls who tied up, which I believe is the correct call. Any thoughts?

Todd VandenAkker · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 03, 2000, 04:47pm

Now, are you talking high school or college? For HS, I do know that Mark is right--violation by A as soon as he catches the ball, which also establishes possession, which results in B's ball plus B getting the arrow. I'm also pretty sure Bob is right about college, that it's a violation but not considered established possession for the AP. But I'd have to look it up just to confirm for myself. Re: pop quiz, I'd agree that you re-jump with the two players who tied up the ball.

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 03, 2000, 06:11pm

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Watson on 03-03-2000 02:33 PM
I dont have the book in front of me either but, causing a violation, does not establish team possession, (for example, B1 is standing on the base line and taps the ball out of A1s hand. Violation on B, but no team B possession). I would give B the ball with A getting the arrow. Its a tough call. Pop Quiz. Earlier in the year I had a tap go to an open spot on the floor with A and B diving simultaneously to the ball for a tie up. No possession and a tough call right away. We re-jumped the two girls who tied up, which I believe is the correct call. Any thoughts?

Well, you're correct that "causing a violation does not establish team posession", but we're talking about team posession being a violation (see the difference?).

In HS, B gets the ball, A gets the arrow. See case 6.3.1C(d) for the exact example.

You were right on your pop-quiz. Same case, play (c).

barney · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 05, 2000, 12:18pm

(In HS, B gets the ball, A gets the arrow. See case 6.3.1C(d) for the exact example.)=Bob Jenkins

Bob per your answer, you got it wrong

team B gets the ball and also gets the arrow per case 6.3.1C(d)

[This message has been edited by barney (edited March 05, 2000).]

bob jenkins · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 06, 2000, 12:46pm

quote:
Originally posted by barney on 03-05-2000 11:18 AM
team B gets the ball and also gets the arrow per case 6.3.1C(d)

[This message has been edited by barney (edited March 05, 2000).]

Doh! That's what I get for typing too fast -- yes, in HS the same team gets the ball and the arrow.