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-   -   FT Lane Spaces (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/52930-ft-lane-spaces.html)

Johnny Ringo Wed Apr 22, 2009 09:46pm

FT Lane Spaces
 
Player A1 attempting FT.
Player B1 and B2 are in the proper place where they are required to be.
Player A2 and A3 are in next spot up from B1 and B2
No player from team B wants the next spot to either A2 or A3.
Can A4 take one of those spots?

First right or refusal here, correct?

Nevadaref Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 597341)
Player A1 attempting FT.
Player B1 and B2 are in the proper place where they are required to be.
Player A2 and A3 are in next spot up from B1 and B2
No player from team B wants the next spot to either A2 or A3.
Can A4 take one of those spots?

First right or refusal here, correct?

A4 cannot take a space along the lane because that would give Team A three players in marked lane spaces and they are limited to a maximum of two.

Nevadaref Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:19pm

8-1-4 . . . During a free throw, lane spaces may be occupied as follows:
a. Marked lane spaces may be occupied by a maximum of four defensive and
two offensive players.

8.1.4 SITUATION: A1 is at the free-throw line for the first attempt of a bonus
situation. In (a), two Team B and two Team A players occupy the first and second
marked lane spaces, respectively. B3 occupies one of the third marked lane
spaces.
A3 attempts to occupy the vacant third marked lane space; or (b) two
Team B players occupy the first marked lane spaces. The offense chooses not to
occupy any marked lane spaces. Two more Team B players choose to occupy the
second marked lane spaces. RULING: Illegal in (a), A3 is not permitted to occupy
the third marked lane space. Only two offensive players may occupy marked
lane spaces during a free throw. If the improper alignment is not corrected prior
to the thrower having the ball at his/her disposal, a free-throw violation shall be
called on Team A immediately.
Legal in (b), four defensive players are permitted
in any of the first three vacant marked lane spaces.

Johnny Ringo Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:40am

Has this always been this way?

Was this ever anything: First right or refusal ....

Nevadaref Thu Apr 23, 2009 03:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 597358)
Has this always been this way?

Was this ever anything: First right or refusal ....

The NFHS went to the four and two maximums and reduced the number of lane spaces on each side from four to three in the 2003-04 season.

For many years prior to that there were four spaces along each side of the lane and the teams were entitled to alternating spaces starting with the defending team filling the two spaces nearest the endline. If one team didn't desire to fill a space then the other team could take it, with the exception of those two bottom spaces. So the entire defending team could be in lane spaces, if the shooting team wanted to keep a player back. To my knowledge it was never "first come, first served." A player always had to step aside if the desired space was slated for the other team due to the alternation rule. That is probably what you mean by "first right or refusal." Note that policy is still in force under the present rules. There are just more restrictions which also have to be conformed to as well.

Finally, WAY BACK in the early 50s each team was actually entitled to one of the bottom lane spaces nearest the basket during FTs. The spaces were marked with an "H "for Home and a "V" for Visitor. If you ever see the video of the famous Milan HS State Championship Game upon which the movie Hoosiers was based, you will see this FT alignment.
PS Yes, they had the skinny 6' key back then too!

BillyMac Thu Apr 23, 2009 06:34am

Who Ya Gonna Call ??? Mythbusters ...
 
On free throws, there is a maximum of two offensive players and four defensive players in the six marked lane spaces. The defense must be in the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks, on all free throws. The offense must not occupy the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks. The shooter and all the players in the designated lane spaces must wait until the ball hits rim or backboard before entering the lane. During a free throw, no opponent, including bench personnel, may disconcert the free thrower. For free throws when there are no rebounders in the marked lane spaces, i.e. technical fouls, the nine nonshooters shall remain behind the free throw line extended and behind the three point arc.

Raymond Thu Apr 23, 2009 07:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 597358)
....

You need to invite your buddies out for a drink but then on the first round instead alcohol give each one of them a rule book. ;)

Johnny Ringo Thu Apr 23, 2009 09:31am

Thank you ...

First right or refusal was meant that the team with the first right to that spot got to keep it or refuse, with the exception of the first space which has to the defense.

bob jenkins Thu Apr 23, 2009 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 597406)
Thank you ...

First right or refusal was meant that the team with the first right to that spot got to keep it or refuse, with the exception of the first space which has to the defense.

It's called "right of first refusal"

bradfordwilkins Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:32pm

One interesting idea that I ran across recently -- if there is a lack of decisiveness, the offense must choose their spots FIRST.

For instance, lets say A1 (shooter's team) wants to be lined up next to B2 but every time he goes to that slot, B2 switches to the other side with B1. You can stop play, ask Team A players where they want to be and then ask team B players to take their chosen spots.

This also applies to choosing spots for a jump ball.

Raymond Thu Apr 23, 2009 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 597454)
...

This also applies to choosing spots for a jump ball.

On free throws I would give the defense last choice, but how exactly does this work for jump balls?

Adam Thu Apr 23, 2009 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 597454)
One interesting idea that I ran across recently -- if there is a lack of decisiveness, the offense must choose their spots FIRST.

For instance, lets say A1 (shooter's team) wants to be lined up next to B2 but every time he goes to that slot, B2 switches to the other side with B1. You can stop play, ask Team A players where they want to be and then ask team B players to take their chosen spots.

This also applies to choosing spots for a jump ball.

There is no way to apply that to a jump ball.

Nevadaref Thu Apr 23, 2009 04:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 597454)
One interesting idea that I ran across recently -- if there is a lack of decisiveness, the offense must choose their spots FIRST.

It does pose an interesting situation, but your stated solution is NOT supported by the NFHS rules book.

There is no reason that the referee couldn't decide that the defense must choose first. The only rule which currently exists that could apply to this situation is 2-3 and that leaves it completely up to the referee of the game.

I'm not passing judgment on your thought. I just don't want anyone thinking that there is a ruling which says to do it that way.

Nevadaref Thu Apr 23, 2009 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 597487)
On free throws I would give the defense last choice, but how exactly does this work for jump balls?

For a jump ball there are already rules in place to handle it. Once the referee is ready to toss the ball he should sound the whistle and thereafter any player who moves illegally should be penalized. The restrictions are very clear on who can move and how, and who can't. Just apply the rules.

Johnny Ringo Thu Apr 23, 2009 05:56pm

What would be the penalty for someone moving after whistle on a jump ball? The basketball at division line and AP arrow to the other team?

BillyMac Thu Apr 23, 2009 06:23pm

Would Someone Please Help Me Off This Soapbox ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 597509)
What would be the penalty for someone moving after whistle on a jump ball?

JUMP-BALL ADMINISTRATION
ART. 1 For any jump ball, each jumper shall have both feet within that half
of the center restraining circle which is farther from his/her basket.
ART. 2 When the referee is ready and until the ball is tossed, nonjumpers
shall not:
a. Move onto the center restraining circle.
b. Change position around the center restraining circle.
ART. 3 Teammates may not occupy adjacent positions around the center
restraining circle if an opponent indicates a desire for one of these positions
before the referee is ready to toss the ball.
ART. 4 The referee shall then toss the ball upward between the jumpers in
a plane at right angles to the sidelines. The toss shall be to a height greater than either of them can jump so that it will drop between them.
ART. 5 Until the tossed ball is touched by one or both jumpers, nonjumpers
shall not:
a. Have either foot break the plane of the center restraining circle cylinder.
b. Take a position in any occupied space.
ART. 6 The tossed ball must be touched by one or both of the jumpers after
it reaches its highest point. If the ball contacts the floor without being touched by at least one of the jumpers, the referee shall toss it again.
ART. 7 Neither jumper shall:
a. Touch the tossed ball before it reaches its highest point.
b. Leave the center restraining circle until the ball has been touched.
c. Catch the jump ball.
d. Touch the ball more than twice.
ART. 8 The jump ball and the restrictions in 6-3-7 end when the touched
ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a basket or
backboard.
NOTE: During a jump ball, a jumper is not required to face his/her own basket, provided he/she is in the proper half of the center restraining circle. The jumper is also not required to jump and attempt to touch the tossed ball. However, if neither jumper touches the ball it should be tossed again with both jumpers being ordered to jump and try to touch the ball.

A player shall not violate any provision of the jump ball (6-3). If both teams
simultaneously commit violations during the jump ball or if the referee makes a
bad toss, the toss shall be repeated.
PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the
opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the
violation.

I've got an easier rule: No jump balls. Toss a coin, or give it to the visiting team. Use the alternating possession arrow, as it pointed at the end of the last period, to start the overtime period(s).

Raymond Fri Apr 24, 2009 08:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 597497)
For a jump ball there are already rules in place to handle it. Once the referee is ready to toss the ball he should sound the whistle and thereafter any player who moves illegally should be penalized. The restrictions are very clear on who can move and how, and who can't. Just apply the rules.

I'm familiar with that. I more interested in bradford's determination of who would be entitled to moving last, especially since there is no offense nor defense to differentiate. ;)

bradfordwilkins Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 597585)
I'm familiar with that. I more interested in bradford's determination of who would be entitled to moving last, especially since there is no offense nor defense to differentiate. ;)

Sorry, my brain was in my pro-rules for a second on the jump ball. I'm doing HS, College and pro-rules in different leagues each week so my wires got crossed. For those of you doing Pro-AM though that's good to remember haha.


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