Bart, Funny you should give that 2nd senario.
Because Murphy Law was working and about 4 minutes later, a similar occurrence except the ball was held to each others side. I called held ball and you know the coach of the player the foul I call earlier went ballistic. I explained to him at half time
exactly what you mentioned in your post. He then calmed down and actually said "OK"!!!
Did he really buy into it, Who knows, but he did CALM down.

I've seen this one handled differently my many of us. Player A1 and B1 jump for a rebound with both players hands on the ball.
Because A1 is either slighlty taller or stronger he brings the ball down in front of him but B1 does not let go. A1 has B1 on his back. Do you call held ball because they both have the ball and initially there was no contact or do you call B1 for a foul because he is now on A1's back. Would you call it differently from a 7th grade game then you might from a JV game ???

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrC. on 03-03-2000 10:39 AM
I've seen this one handled differently my many of us. Player A1 and B1 jump for a rebound with both players hands on the ball.
Because A1 is either slighlty taller or stronger he brings the ball down in front of him but B1 does not let go. A1 has B1 on his back. Do you call held ball because they both have the ball and initially there was no contact or do you call B1 for a foul because he is now on A1's back. Would you call it differently from a 7th grade game then you might from a JV game ???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First I judge whether the ball was held by both long enough for a jump ball, then I judge whether the contact was sufficient for a foul (Advantage/Disadvantage), or not. I've got three choices: jump ball, foul, no call. I have 0.4 seconds to make that decision at any level.
It could happen all three ways during a game, but never during the same play. During any given play, you judge the results and choose the fair application.
mick

I agree with Mick. Usually this is a no call or foul. If B1 ends up having both arms wrapped around A1 and won't let go, probably have a foul. If B1 lets go, no call. Jump ball if B1 ends up to the side of A1 and doesn't have arms wrapped around A1.

DrC,

I think this scenario is a good example of when to go with that "gut feeling". The three choices mentioned above (foul, no call, held ball) are all very possible. When I have a situation like this, I just let my sub-conscience take over. Don't read into it, don't overthink it. Call what you see, sell it, and move on.

Only experience is going to help us make the proper call more often in those "bang-bang" situations.

Ahhh. We all are forgetting the "fourth" situation. When A1 lets go before there is
contact. I love it when there is a phone book of space between the two and A1's coach makes it seem like there was a felonious mugging.
I think this is still one of the tougher calls to make, it is fast play, needing a quick decision, and we almost always take grief on the call.

Drc. If you are the lead, only call over back if the player in front ends up in your lap, or if you have an angle to see if there is or isn't space between them. Which means as a lead you probably only call over back once ever 10-20 games. I called one this year. You have to trust your partners. Brian has a good point about the player letting go of ball and there being space between them. I can't tell you how many times as C or T, I see space and the lead calls over back. Bad call!