Post Defense

[CBracher]

I'm in college right now and play rec basketball on a daily basis. I never played high school basketball but I consider myself pretty knowledgable in basketball rules. The one dispute that seems to come up a lot when playing is what counts as a defensive foul in the post. I've always been told that a forearm and a hand on the offensive players back isn't a foul but two hands is. A lot of people I guard argue that both are fouls. Could anyone tell me for sure?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CBracher

I'm in college right now and play rec basketball on a daily basis. I never played high school basketball but I consider myself pretty knowledgable in basketball rules. The one dispute that seems to come up a lot when playing is what counts as a defensive foul in the post. I've always been told that a forearm and a hand on the offensive players back isn't a foul but two hands is. A lot of people I guard argue that both are fouls. Could anyone tell me for sure?

In pick-up ball neither one is a foul.

[rlarry]

A forearm is alright as long as it is not extended, you can have it close to your body for protection, as long as the offensive player does not have the ball. Once he gets the ball, it is hands off.

[CBracher]

Originally Posted by rlarry

A forearm is alright as long as it is not extended, you can have it close to your body for protection, as long as the offensive player does not have the ball. Once he gets the ball, it is hands off.

It's not something we call, it's just something that gets talked about.

But thank you for helping me solve the issue. We also get into it about the whole knee wedge thing but that's an entirely different, and extremely frustrating, problem...

[GoodwillRef]

Simple...displacement or holding...the tough part is what each official sees as displacement and or holding.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by CBracher

It's not something we call, it's just something that gets talked about.

But thank you for helping me solve the issue. We also get into it about the whole knee wedge thing but that's an entirely different, and extremely frustrating, problem...

I hate the knee. When I see it trying to push an opponent, I get rid of it. Voice first, foul second.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Voice first, foul second.

Whistle third!

[bob jenkins]

Over the years, there have been "rules" (really, officiating guidelines and statements in the rules books, but generally not specificc rules themselves) that "two of anything" is a foul, "two hands" is a foul, "one hand and a knee" is a foul, etc.

I think we're now back to "displacement or hindering freedom of movement," as opposed to the specific contact method.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Over the years, there have been "rules" (really, officiating guidelines and statements in the rules books, but generally not specificc rules themselves) that "two of anything" is a foul, "two hands" is a foul, "one hand and a knee" is a foul, etc.

I think we're now back to "displacement or hindering freedom of movement," as opposed to the specific contact method.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Over the years, there have been "rules" (really, officiating guidelines and statements in the rules books, but generally not specificc rules themselves) that "two of anything" is a foul, "two hands" is a foul, "one hand and a knee" is a foul, etc.

I think we're now back to "displacement or hindering freedom of movement," as opposed to the specific contact method.

Just happened upon this:

Originally Posted by John Adams (not the US President, the other one)

*”We strive to get 85 to 86 percent of calls correct during a game,” Adams said. “In the last two minutes we need to get 100 percent right. A referee’s mistakes in the first five minutes can be fixed, overcome by the players and the coaches; there is not enough time in the last two minutes to fix mistakes. It has a lasting effect on the game.”


*”The N.B.A. strives for a balance that leans toward the offense. We strive for a balance that does not favor offense or defense.”

*The emphasis all season, the basic tenet referees are expected to follow, has been, “freedom of movement,” Adams said. He is in favor of a series of absolutes that would be called coast to coast. One example is a defender putting two hands on a dribbler; it is an automatic foul.

Mr. Adams went on to state that this did not apply to spin move traveling.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by CBracher

I'm in college right now and play rec basketball on a daily basis. I never played high school basketball but I consider myself pretty knowledgable in basketball rules. The one dispute that seems to come up a lot when playing is what counts as a defensive foul in the post. I've always been told that a forearm and a hand on the offensive players back isn't a foul but two hands is. A lot of people I guard argue that both are fouls. Could anyone tell me for sure?

The question we all need to ask ourselves is why don't we call more fouls on the offensive player in the post...we sometimes let them push, hold, and displace the defender and we call that "posting up," it is also a foul. Backing down a defender, arms outside the framework of the body holding the defender so they can't front, displacing the defender on the initial post up. If we are going to call a knee in the backside the moves an offensive player 2 feet we need to call fouls on the offense when the above mention items occur also.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

The question we all need to ask ourselves is why don't we call more fouls on the offensive player in the post...we sometimes let them push, hold, and displace the defender and we call that "posting up," it is also a foul. Backing down a defender, arms outside the framework of the body holding the defender so they can't front, displacing the defender on the initial post up. If we are going to call a knee in the backside the moves an offensive player 2 feet we need to call fouls on the offense when the above mention items occur also.

Called this last week. PC all the way. Team A was shocked and B says "he's been doing that all season..."

[BillyMac]

Post Play
Let’s not allow a defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block. Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand. As Lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul. Remember RIDD. Don’t let players Redirect, Impede, Displace, or Dislodge.