Duke vs. Villanova

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Shot clock issues aside is anyone surprised at how rough that game was. I realize I'm no big dog. I don't watch that much college basketball. So you can treat me as a fanboy if you must. FYI I'm a Duke hater but man that is physical basketball going on.

I thought the Big Sky was thug ball but the Villanove players are bigger and stronger then Big Sky hoopers and I was a little more then surprised at how rough it was.

....and the Big East still has five teams standing (for now) out of the remaining 12 - a pretty healthy percentage.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by grunewar

....and the Big East still has five teams standing (for now) out of the remaining 12 - a pretty healthy percentage.

And I have 4 of those 5 in my final 4.

[TussAgee11]

Somebody at work made an interesting point - not sure when this changed.

When did the NCAA start using officials in the tourney that work the conference of one of the participants?

As for the mechanics, I've come to expect it at the top level of all sports. The double points, the "get up" signal, the "I have nothing" signal, the Ed Hightower fists together at the waste and extend up towards the sky to indicate a push, everything Teddy V does, etc. etc. etc. When in Rome, but it makes it hard for a high school official to learn from watching them on TV with the double whistles, double pointing, larger than life flamboyant mechanics.

MLB umpires are a prime example as well.

Hess was the calling official on the offensive foul and count the basket play. On the replay, he looked like he didn't even know the ball went in, as if it was just an ordinary rebounding foul. For once, the announcers had a right to be confused. I know I was.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Somebody at work made an interesting point - not sure when this changed.

When did the NCAA start using officials in the tourney that work the conference of one of the participants?

Probably all the time since officials work for 2, 3, 4 or even more conferences. Its bound to occur. It is not like football where the crews/officials specifically work for one conference and it may be desireable to have a crew from a neutral confernece, even if only to avoid appearances of unfairness.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Probably all the time since officials work for 2, 3, 4 or even more conferences. Its bound to occur. It is not like football where the crews/officials specifically work for one conference and it may be desireable to have a crew from a neutral confernece, even if only to avoid appearances of unfairness.

I was just under the impression this used to be NCAA policy. If it changed many years ago, and perhaps I missed it nor never thought about it, my bad.

I wasn't critiquing it, I really don't think its much of a problem at all. In fact, I think its better. You get officials on the game that know team and conference tendencies. I wouldn't want a Pac-10 official working a Big East game if I had a Big East official of equal caliber to do it.

As for the mechanics issue, you won't convince me that some of you don't cringe when you see some of the stuff a few of these officials do to communicate a call. This is still amateur athletics. MLB, fine, its all about the show. But it is possible that a high school official works D3, which is under the NCAA banner.

So for that D3 official to want to aspire to D1, and then see D1 officials with crappy mechanics, it's gotta make them cringe a bit.

Again, when in Rome...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I was just under the impression this used to be NCAA policy. If it changed many years ago, and perhaps I missed it nor never thought about it, my bad.

I wasn't critiquing it, I really don't think its much of a problem at all. In fact, I think its better. You get officials on the game that know team and conference tendencies. I wouldn't want a Pac-10 official working a Big East game if I had a Big East official of equal caliber to do it.

I am not sure this ever was a policy. I could be wrong, but I do not think this was ever something written.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

As for the mechanics issue, you won't convince me that some of you don't cringe when you see some of the stuff a few of these officials do to communicate a call. This is still amateur athletics. MLB, fine, its all about the show. But it is possible that a high school official works D3, which is under the NCAA banner.

I will say I am not trying to convince you, but if you understand that the college ranks have different mechanics, then you will get over it. For example, the "No closely guarded signal" was at one time not a NF or HS mechanic. I would hope that there were people smart enough to realize they could not do that at the high school level until that mechanic was adopted. And if you include NCAA Women's mechanics with all their signals, then you are really naive to compare the two levels. At least Men's basketball is in line with things the NF is trying to do. Women's basketball is another issue all together. And as an amateur umpire, I really do not care what the MLB people do. Just like as an amateur football official, I do not look at the NFL for guidance either. Each level has their standards and you if you are looking toward another level then you are not using the right role models.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

So for that D3 official to want to aspire to D1, and then see D1 officials with crappy mechanics, it's gotta make them cringe a bit.

Again, when in Rome...

I think college officials realize quickly what they can or cannot do. You learn that by going to camp which most college officials will have to do nowadays. Even at the D3 level there are officials that can do things that another or younger D3 official would never get away with. It is not about when in Rome, it is about knowing your place.

Peace

[refguy]

Villanova reminds me of something Tarkanian used to say about their brand of defense back in the day. They can't call em all!! It seems that is their mindset and the game ends up in a slugfest/hockey/lacrosse match instead of the beautiful finesse game of basketball the way it is intended.
If a game has 60 fouls, put air in the whistle. If the players don't stop, they sit.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Somebody at work made an interesting point - not sure when this changed.

When did the NCAA start using officials in the tourney that work the conference of one of the participants?

Then you would have to eliminate the pool of officials or assign officials at each round that did not make the tournament, if you did what you suggest. Teddy V or Hightower work so many conferences they would only be allowed to work Pac-10 teams playing each other and in the current system there are no match-ups these guys would be able to work based on that way of thinking.

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

As for the mechanics, I've come to expect it at the top level of all sports. The double points, the "get up" signal, the "I have nothing" signal, the Ed Hightower fists together at the waste and extend up towards the sky to indicate a push, everything Teddy V does, etc. etc. etc. When in Rome, but it makes it hard for a high school official to learn from watching them on TV with the double whistles, double pointing, larger than life flamboyant mechanics.

MLB umpires are a prime example as well.

Why would you look towards any level other than your own for examples of good mechanics? These guys (even the MLB Umpires) are not working high school games.

Peace

[26 Year Gap]

Back to the topic: Duke got killed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Back to the topic: Duke got killed.

This is always on topic.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Back to the topic: Duke got killed.

What is happening with Duke? Six years in a row they have lost to a lower seed.

Is coach K not getting the job done anymore? Is Duke overrated? When Duke gets McDonalds All-Americans, are they All-Americans because they are that good or are they All-Americans because they go to Duke?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Forksref

What is happening with Duke? Six years in a row they have lost to a lower seed.

They must be over-seeded and over-rated.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Forksref

What is happening with Duke? Six years in a row they have lost to a lower seed.

Is coach K not getting the job done anymore? Is Duke overrated? When Duke gets McDonalds All-Americans, are they All-Americans because they are that good or are they All-Americans because they go to Duke?

Don't know but I hope they keep it up!