You put it down, wrong team picks it up

[BayStateRef]

Kids travel playoffs (7th grade).

Following a time-out, the offensive team is slow to break the huddle, while the defensive team is on the court. The official puts the ball on the floor and starts the 5-second count. One of the defensive players, who clearly is not sure what is gong on, goes out-of-bounds and picks up the ball. Now what?

[rlarry]

Under Fed rules you can blow your whistle and make it right as long as the throw in has not legally ended.

[Raymond]

One piece of advice I've received from a retired D1 official is that whenever you place the ball down on a throw-in is to call out the color of the team who should be throwing it in.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

One piece of advice I've received from a retired D1 official is that whenever you place the ball down on a throw-in is to call out the color of the team who should be throwing it in.

And be prepared to body block any player from the wrong team who attempts to step out of bounds and pick up the ball.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rlarry

Under Fed rules you can blow your whistle and make it right as long as the throw in has not legally ended.

rlarry:

Play #1: Team A has been awarded a throw-in after a timeout. The administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by bouncing the ball to A1 and A1 catches the ball. B1, who is guarding A1, steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball out of A1's hands.

Play #2: Team A has been awarded a throw-in after a timeout. Team A does not leave its huddle after the timeout ends and the administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by placing the ball on the floor. B1 steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball.

What is the difference between Play #1 and Play #2.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by placing the ball on the floor. B1 steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball out of A1's hands.

How did the ball get from the floor into A1's hands?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How did the ball get from the floor into A1's hands?

I did not edit my cutting and pasting. I will edit my OP immediately.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Kids travel playoffs (7th grade).

Following a time-out, the offensive team is slow to break the huddle, while the defensive team is on the court. The official puts the ball on the floor and starts the 5-second count. One of the defensive players, who clearly is not sure what is gong on, goes out-of-bounds and picks up the ball. Now what?

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Case Book
*7.5.1 SITUATION B: Team A does not break the huddle after the second horn
for a 60-second time-out. The official puts the ball down at the designated spot
and begins the five-second count. The administering official is between four and
five on the count when Team B reaches over the boundary and grabs the ball.
RULING: Delay-of-game warning on Team B for reaching across the plane. No
Team A member ever possessed the ball for the throw-in; therefore, a technical
foul would not be assessed. (9-2 Penalty 3)

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

rlarry:

Play #1: Team A has been awarded a throw-in after a timeout. The administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by bouncing the ball to A1 and A1 catches the ball. B1, who is guarding A1, steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball out of A1's hands.

Pla #2: Team A has been awarded a throw-in after a timeout. Team A does not leave its huddle after the timeout ends and the administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by placing the ball on the floor. B1 steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball out of A1's hands.

What is the difference between Play #1 and Play #2.

MTD, Sr.

"No Team A member ever possessed the ball for the throw-in" as stated in the above case play.
It is a new ruling for this year, so perhaps you just learned something new!

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It is a new ruling for this year, so perhaps you just learned something new!

Thanks. My 08-09 book is in my bag...not by the computer.

My partner was the administering official. As soon as the wrong player picked up the ball, he blew the whistle and took the ball back. But he did not issue the warning.

Reading the OP and the case play, I don't think we really have a definitive answer. This is a case of where the B player went OOB and picked up the ball. The case play only says what to do when they reach through the boundary and pick it up. What about if she comes OOB without reaching through the boundary, and picks up the ball? You can't issue a warning there because she's not reaching through the boundary per se. I'll just sit back with my popcorn and listen to the comments fly.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Case Book
*7.5.1 SITUATION B: Team A does not break the huddle after the second horn
for a 60-second time-out. The official puts the ball down at the designated spot
and begins the five-second count. The administering official is between four and
five on the count when Team B reaches over the boundary and grabs the ball.
RULING: Delay-of-game warning on Team B for reaching across the plane. No
Team A member ever possessed the ball for the throw-in; therefore, a technical
foul would not be assessed. (9-2 Penalty 3)


"No Team A member ever possessed the ball for the throw-in" as stated in the above case play.
It is a new ruling for this year, so perhaps you just learned something new!

Nevada:

First, I went back to my OP and edited it so it made sense. Second, I am getting old and senile. I really do not like the ruling in NFHS Casebook Play 7.5.1 SITUATION B. Physical possession of the ball has nothing to do with the play. I have had this situation occur in the past (it has been a few years since the last time it happened; I even had in occur in a girls' varsity game) and each time I issued a team warning for delay of game if one had not been given and charged the player with a TF for delay of game. Whether B1 grabs the ball out of A1's hands or picks the ball up off of the floor B1's action is a delay of game that prevents Team A from completing or attempting to make a throw-in. This is just another case of an interpretation made by people who do not know the rules.

MTD, Sr.

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Nevada:

This is just another case of an interpretation made by people who do not know the rules.

No, it was another case of you not knowing the rule until Nevada clued you in. And now that you (hopefully) do know it, (hopefully) you will now follow it if the situation ever does come up- whether you happen to like or agree with the interpretation.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

rlarry:

Play #1: Team A has been awarded a throw-in after a timeout. The administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by bouncing the ball to A1 and A1 catches the ball. B1, who is guarding A1, steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball out of A1's hands.

Play #2: Team A has been awarded a throw-in after a timeout. Team A does not leave its huddle after the timeout ends and the administering official has placed the ball at A1's disposable by placing the ball on the floor. B1 steps out-of-bounds and grabs the ball.

What is the difference between Play #1 and Play #2.

MTD, Sr.

There is no difference. Isn't the ball at A's disposal once the RPP begins? So whether B1 reaches across the plane or steps OOB to get the ball, it's a warning if it's the 1st violation or TF if it's the 2nd.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

There is no difference. Isn't the ball at A's disposal once the RPP begins? So whether B1 reaches across the plane or steps OOB to get the ball, it's a warning if it's the 1st violation or TF if it's the 2nd.

WreckRef:

My question was a rhetorical question and you and I are on the same page and wavelength.

MTD, Sr.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by rlarry

Under Fed rules you can blow your whistle and make it right as long as the throw in has not legally ended.

The ball becomes live and the throw in begins when the official uses the RPP procedure and sets the ball on the ground; at that time it is at the disposal of team A. That is a different situation than an official by mistake giving the ball to team B.