Closely Guarded Count
 

Watched a lot of basketball this past week, like everyone else, but had a question about a closely guarded count. Does the player with the ball have to be facing the defender for there to be a CG count? Don't see that in the rules, but saw several situations where the offensive player would have the ball with his back to the basket, just outside the lane, and be dribbling trying to set up the defender for a post move. But no CG count was shown by the official. I wouldn't consider a few set-up dribbles to be actual moves to the basket, so why wouldn't you have a count here?

The common opinion is that a player is not "guarding" unless facing an opponent.

That being said, maybe there was no count because the officials did not feel they were in the proper distance (6 feet for men's basketball).

Without seeing the play in question or talking to the officials, it is hard to know why there was no count or if there were other reasons.

Peace

Hard to say, but please remember moving to the basket is irrrelevant for a closely guarded count. Three second counts are different.

Another possibility is that since you mentioned the player with the ball had their back to the basket, that player is most likely a post player, therefore the L would have on-ball coverage, and the L never has the 5-sec. count in NCAA-M or Fed.

Really?

I am inclined to go with your first comment. The defender was certainly within 6 feet. I've seen this even at the top of the circle where the offensive player is just holding the ball, his back to the defender who is right behind him, waiting on various players to make cuts and such. They never exceed the 5 seconds before either passing or starting a dribble, but I rarely see an official demonstrating a count until the offensive player turns to face the defender. So I was just curious if there was some understanding that you had to be facing each other in order to be "closely guarded."

Anyone noticing some very long seconds between the counts ? :cool:

I've been told that many times, by many different sources.

I don't happen to agree with it, however.

I have never heard of this unwritten rule. The defender should be facing the player with the ball, but it does not matter which direction the player with the ball is facing.

Nope, there is no mention in the rules about "facing each other", only that the defender <B>initially</B> be facing the opponent. In fact, once initial Legal Guarding Position is obtained, "The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent". (4-23-2 and 4-23-3) There is no mention that offensive player needs to be facing the defender at any time.

Wimmens too! At least Fed.

Concur. We were in the Chat Room the other night discussing this issue - one ref (forget which game) kept spreading his arms and the defender was almost touching the offensive player. Seems inconsistent at best.

Wimmen's college is 3 feet, held ball only.

It appeared he was talking about NCAA Basketball. I did not care to mention Wimmens basketball.

Peace

But, by mentioning that you didn't mention it, did you actually mention it, or not? :confused:

My mom does that to me all the time.

I was gonna make some comment about wondering how you could confuse your mom with Jeff, but I didn't.

I was going to call that passive aggressive, but I decided not to.

I've seen a ton of defenders about 2-3 feet away with the outstretched arms by the officials. 6 feet, indeed.

Mark???? :-)

Really?????????????? What about a 2 man game?

I really hope you are not equating his comments to 2 Person? This was not a 2 Person game.

Peace

It's apparent we're talking 3 man in this thread.

That is obvious unless Steve Welmer broke his foot again? :p

Peace

Well that's why they have alternates in the tourney..oh wait that was a joke right? :D

Who? Tennessee, Auburn, or North Carolina?

I'm upset that you had to point that out.

For a defender to obtain (NFHS)/establish (NCAA/FIBA) legal guarding position against an opponent, the defender must have both feet in contact with the floor (inbounds) and facing the opponent (the offensive player does not have to be facing the defensive player). There is no minimum distance required to obtain/establish legal guarding posisition, i.e., a defender can obtain/establish a legal guarding position against an opponent this is fifty (50) feet away, as long as he meets the requirments of obtaining/establishing a legal guarding position.

MTD, Sr.

4.23.Art 2 : Describes obtaining initial LGP
so in the scenario described no LGP was established. Hence no count.
However, IF LGP was initially established then, the opponent could turn around (giving his back ) as described in 4.23.3b and the count should continue as long as the 6 feet maximum distance is retained and was started when LGP was established.

This is my understaning

If you are talking about the initial post, it was the <B>offensive player</B> that had their back to the defense. It was assumed the defender was facing the offensive player. So, yes, a count should be started/going.

inconsistency
 

In both the men's and women's tournaments there has been a great inconsistency thus far in my opinion about when the count is on and off,
last night I watche the womens tourney and a player with the ball had a 6' 9" defender from Mich state guarding her while she held the ball, the defenders Arm was extended and she still about a foot away and there was a count.
I am not sure the defender was within 6 feet much less 3 feet.
in the men's game there have been several situations where players have been still with defenders right on top of them with no counts or dribbling for well over 5 seconds (clock time) with no calls.
If I had one complaint about something being called or not in the tourney's that would be it.

Yes, that is the basis for my question......the offensive player has his back to the defender, who is facing the offensive player and within 6', but there is no CG count signaled. Had a game Wed and when this happened, I started my count. Ball passed out before I got to 5, but came right back into the post (outside the lane, post player not making a move, just dribbling and waiting for an opening) and I started the count again. There was a steal and we went to the other end, but the offensive coach was on me about doing a CG count when the offensive player wasn't FACING the defense.

Tell him he's a freaking idiot and it doesn't matter which direction the offensive player is facing here.

Or just ignore him.